Ukraine/Vilnius

[NUS]

I am surprised the Ruskies don't see the opportunity and use Ukraine as a hub.

Hub for what? Why would Russia need a reseller in trade with EU?

[Minskaya]

Russians west of the Urals have long considered themselves as part of the European community. But Russian ideologue's have long considered (and in some cases rightfully so) Europe to be a potential threat to the empire. Ukraine and Belarus have traditionally been viewed as buffer states between Russia proper and Europe. A westernized Ukraine aligned with the EU would bring Europe (European economics, social values, etc) right to the very border of the Russian Federation.

[Doktor]

Hub for what? Why would Russia need a reseller in trade with EU?

Hub for Business. Because there is this country named Ukraine, like it or not.

[Doktor]

Russians west of the Urals have long considered themselves as part of the European community. But Russian ideologue's have long considered (and in some cases rightfully so) Europe to be a potential threat to the empire. Ukraine and Belarus have traditionally been viewed as buffer states between Russia proper and Europe. A westernized Ukraine aligned with the EU would bring Europe (European economics, social values, etc) right to the very border of the Russian Federation.

I don't get this logic. Miserable Ukraine is better then a prosperous one? Why? If my neighbor is good, I am good, too.

[NUS]

Hub for Business. Because there is this country named Ukraine, like it or not.

What kind of Business? What can Ukraine offer, that can't be done in Russia?

[Doktor]

What kind of Business? What can Ukraine offer, that can't be done in Russia?

Open EU market without tariffs for one?

[NUS]

Open EU market without tariffs for one?

So, you want Russian government to lose tariff profits to make Ukraine government richer? Thanks, but no, thanks.

[Doktor]

So, you want Russian government to lose tariff profits to make Ukraine government richer? Thanks, but no, thanks.

This line of thinking is what makes the trouble.

Of course this is my view, but from what I can understand is "we wont increase our biz with Europe via Ukraine, only to prevent Ukrainians to become somewhat rich"

[NUS]

This line of thinking is what makes the trouble.

Of course this is my view, but from what I can understand is "we wont increase our biz with Europe via Ukraine, only to prevent Ukrainians to become somewhat rich"

Problem is not with Ukraine getting rich. Problem is with Russia losing money through hole in tariff regime. Is it so hard to understand?

[Doktor]

Problem is not with Ukraine getting rich. Problem is with Russia losing money through hole in tariff regime. Is it so hard to understand?

How can Russia lose money trough tariffs?

On one side they ask Ukraine to be part of CU, on the other they are mad for UA to sign the same deal with EU.

Last time I checked EU haven't asked for exclusivity. Unless something changed for Ukraine, which I doubt. That leaves the Russian side doing "Either you are with us or against us".

[NUS]

How can Russia lose money trough tariffs?

On one side they ask Ukraine to be part of CU, on the other they are mad for UA to sign the same deal with EU.

Last time I checked EU haven't asked for exclusivity. Unless something changed for Ukraine, which I doubt. That leaves the Russian side doing "Either you are with us or against us".

Last time I checked EU does not impose tariffs on Russian gas. And even if there is export goods which can profit for lower tariffs with EU, current conditions make balance of profits and losses negative for Russia.

[cyppok]

I am not getting why the Russians are playing the game like this.

This use-the-writ never worked, even when they had a longer one.

I am surprised the Ruskies don't see the opportunity and use Ukraine as a hub.

this is how it is now it is used as a hub in addition to tariff arbitrage. all Russia is saying is it will simply discontinue the practice. Ergo the trade union will not have FTA agreements with Ukraine as is currently.

There is no game its either companies in Russia that will reap the benefits or in Ukraine the only reason they offer trade union is because it negates the arbitrage and makes it level playing field for both. Either way if Ukraine goes to trade union or EU it looses of what it has today.

Eu would ship product to Ukraine that has FTA with Russia thus negating all tarriffs in-force Russia has. Lets say there is a tarriff of 25% on car parts now I just ship via Ukraine and there is no need to keep factories in Russia anymore which would be less efficient due to capital deployed. Just one example. EU doesn't want exclusivity to use this Russia is telling Ukraine pick one.

[Doktor]

this is how it is now it is used as a hub in addition to tariff arbitrage. all Russia is saying is it will simply discontinue the practice. Ergo the trade union will not have FTA agreements with Ukraine as is currently.

There is no game its either companies in Russia that will reap the benefits or in Ukraine the only reason they offer trade union is because it negates the arbitrage and makes it level playing field for both. Either way if Ukraine goes to trade union or EU it looses of what it has today.

Eu would ship product to Ukraine that has FTA with Russia thus negating all tarriffs in-force Russia has. Lets say there is a tarriff of 25% on car parts now I just ship via Ukraine and there is no need to keep factories in Russia anymore which would be less efficient due to capital deployed. Just one example. EU doesn't want exclusivity to use this Russia is telling Ukraine pick one.

I can't import a Russian car from Germany and pay 0% customs.

There is this thing called EUR1 document which shows the origin of goods. The tariff are by origin, not by place of the last departure.

[S2]

Very informative thread. Thank you to all.

[cyppok]

I can't import a Russian car from Germany and pay 0% customs.

There is this thing called EUR1 document which shows the origin of goods. The tariff are by origin, not by place of the last departure.

the flow is to Russia not EU.

ergo Ukraine would get the car attach wheels or doors as part of "final assembly" and presto by magic the origin is no longer EU, no need for tarriffs.
This is not about Russian goods going via Ukraine to Europe but the reverse EU goods going to Russia via Ukraine to escape customs.