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**zraver** · 30 Jun 13,, 21:00

I've spoken out against Turkey any time. I respect their military but am eyes wide open to the way they treat minorities and flout international law.

**Bigfella** · 30 Jun 13,, 21:34

I would have the same attitude to this as I do to the anti-Israeli campaign - an exercise in adolescent tantrum throwing masquerading as a 'campaign'. No interest in either.

**bigross86** · 30 Jun 13,, 21:58

This is nothing more than a though experiment there to prove that BDS-ers are nothing more than common anti-Semites hiding under yet another guise, this time the guise of Boycott, Divestment Sanction, but anti-Semites nonetheless.

**troung** · 30 Jun 13,, 22:44

This is nothing more than a though experiment there to prove that BDS-ers are nothing more than common anti-Semites hiding under yet another guise, this time the guise of Boycott, Divestment Sanction, but anti-Semites nonetheless.

Experiment, oh sounds sooo sciency.

One can boycott products from Israel because of the occupation and not hate Jews. Lame attempt at pulling the "race card".

As for the thread - thin skinned whining worthy of a chinabot.

**bigross86** · 30 Jun 13,, 23:10

One can boycott products from Israel because of the occupation and not hate Jews.

True, I never stated otherwise. BDS however cannot.

This is evidenced by 1) BDS'ers in Vancouver, Oakland and Melbourne trashing stores of Israeli chains and physically attacking Israelis (the vast and near absolute majority of them Jewish). 2) The fact that BDS'ers do not actually boycott everything that comes from Israel, as a proper anti-Israel boycott would be. I've posted the video of Israeli achievements, advancements and inventions which the BDS movement should but doesn't boycott, one of the larger ones being Intel microprocessors used in most laptops and computers around the world. 3) This is finally evidenced, as was proven by the above article, by the fact that there hasn't been mention of, is no mention of and never will be mention of a BDS-Turkey movement.

Lame attempt at pulling the "race card".

You can argue that, that is your prerogative.

As for the thread - thin skinned whining worthy of a chinabot.

So you don't have to respond, or even read it. No one is forcing you... I think you'll also notice that there was no whining in the OP about BDS-Israel, quite the opposite, as a matter of fact:

Sadly the last BDS you organised – against, naturally, the Israeli people – didn’t turn out so well. Indeed, the Israeli economy is thriving like no other. But you might have better luck against, sorry, with Turkey.

My subsequent post was not whining either, merely stating a fact, at least as I see it. Whining would be more along the lines of:

"Why do they only attack us???? What did we do wrong??? Why is no one blaming the Palestinians for attacking Israelis? Why is no one proposing BDS against the Turks???? It's just not fair!!!!!!11"

See the difference? I'm sure you do, but you'll ignore it. Whatever. Good evening to you, sir.

**troung** · 30 Jun 13,, 23:29

True, I never stated otherwise. BDS however cannot.

Yes it can. Not doing business with Israel because of Israeli policy doesn't mean one hates Jews the same way not buying from South Africa didn't mean you hated Boers. Lame pulling of a race card.

BDS'ers in Vancouver, Oakland and Melbourne trashing stores of Israeli chains and physically attacking Israelis (the vast and near absolute majority of them Jewish)

Underneath all people who will not open their wallets to purchase from Israeli companies is an OWS/anarchist ready to come out

The fact that BDS'ers do not actually boycott everything that comes from Israel, as a proper anti-Israel boycott would be.

Not anti Semitic and reasonably directed as their goal is to make the nation change policy.

This is finally evidenced, as was proven by the above article, by the fact that there hasn't been mention of, is no mention of and never will be mention of a BDS-Turkey movement.

LOL. The lack of anyone giving two shits about the Kurds/Shan/Hazaras, at the moment, means concern over the Palestinians is antisemitism. The same way it's not racist to be mad at China over their treatment of Tibet.

You can argue that, that is your prerogative.

That's what it is. Pulling the race card at every turn. Sharpton at least has damn nice hair to go with the race bait.

"Why do they only attack us???? What did we do wrong??? Why is no one blaming the Palestinians for attacking Israelis? Why is no one proposing BDS against the Turks???? It's just not fair!!!!!!11"

That's what it was.

So you don't have to respond, or even read it. No one is forcing you... I think you'll also notice that there was no whining in the OP about BDS-Israel, quite the opposite, as a matter of fact:

The OP was bitching about BDS-Israel and using Turkey to do so. As you stated yourself in post-4.

I'm just stating you sound like a chinabot, at least Al Sharpton can be witty once in awhile.

============
A long time ago in WAB years you stated you wanted to go out and be some sort of Tokyo Rose propagandist or something cheesy like that - I don't care that much to remember - I'm suggesting you maybe should learn to change oil or something. You would be good at holding a sign and repeating a cheesy slogan.
=============
God if the interwebs were around in the 1980s we would be having Boers posting similar articles :insane:

**bigross86** · 30 Jun 13,, 23:48

It's late, and I honestly can't even be bothered to explain to you how wrong you are. Even if I did it wouldn't make the slightest difference.

I've got a test later today. Good night.

**zraver** · 01 Jul 13,, 00:51

Originally posted by bigross86 View Post

This is nothing more than a though experiment there to prove that BDS-ers are nothing more than common anti-Semites hiding under yet another guise, this time the guise of Boycott, Divestment Sanction, but anti-Semites nonetheless.

Wait what... If BDS doesn't give Turkey the same treatment (even though Turkey's sins are no where near the same) then its anti-semite??? Do you really want to compare how Turkey treats the Kurds to how Israel treats the Palestinians? You never let up do you? Instead of admitting Israel has an image problem due to Israel's actions you seek to blame others and accuse them of being antisemitic.

Oh BTW, Intel is American. You know that inventions and accomplishment claim... If you want something to be proud of get your own national achievements.

**bigross86** · 01 Jul 13,, 08:32

Everything else in your post is the same willful misinterpretation that Troung is making, so I'm gonna ignore it. I will address your last point, however:

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel . Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel. More current Intel chips, including the i5 and the i7, build upon the Pentium/Centrino technology.

Intel is an American company, but it was Israeli people with Israeli brains in an Israeli building, yes, in Israel that created Intel's microprocessor.

But until the 1970s, computers were used predominantly by rocket scientists and big universities. Some computers took up whole rooms or even buildings. The idea of a computer on your office desk or in your home was the stuff of science fiction. All that began to change in 1980, when Intel’s Haifa team designed the 8088 chip, whose transistors could flip almost five million times per second (4.77 megahertz), and were small enough to allow for the creation of computers that would fit in homes and offices.

IBM chose Israel’s 8088 chip as the brains for its first “personal computer,” or PC, launching a new era of computing. It was also a major breakthrough for Intel. According to journalist Michael Malone, “With the IBM contract, Intel won the microprocessor wars.”9

From then on, computing technology continued to get smaller and faster. By 1986, Intel’s only foreign chip factory was producing the 386 chip. Built in Jerusalem, its processing speed was 33 megahertz. Though a small fraction of today’s chip speeds, Intel called it “blazing”—it was almost seven times faster than the 8088. The company was solidly on the path imagined by one of its founders, Gordon Moore, who predicted that the industry would shrink transistors to half their size every eighteen to twenty-four months, roughly doubling a chip’s processing speed. This constant halving was dubbed “Moore’s law,” and the chip industry was built around this challenge to deliver faster and faster chips. IBM, Wall Street, and the business press all caught on, too—clock speed and size was how they measured the value of new chips.

This was proceeding well until about 2000, when another factor came into the mix: power. Chips were getting smaller and faster, just as Moore had predicted. But as they did, they also used more power and generated more heat. Chips overheating would soon become a critical problem. The obvious solution was a fan, but, in the case of laptops, the fan needed to cool the chips would be much too big to fit inside. Industry experts dubbed this dead end the “power wall.”

Intel’s Israeli team was the first group within the company to see this coming. Many late nights at Intel’s Haifa facility were dedicated to hot coffee, cold takeout, and ad hoc brainstorming sessions about how to get around the power wall. The Israeli team was more focused than anyone on what the industry called “mobility”—designing chips for laptop computers and, eventually, for all sorts of mobile devices. Noticing this tendency, Intel put their Israeli branch in charge of building mobility chips for the whole company.

Even given this responsibility, Israelis still resisted fitting into the Intel mainstream. “The development group in Israel, even before it was tasked as the mobility group, pushed ideas for mobility that went against the common wisdom at Intel,” explained Intel Israel’s chief, David “Dadi” Perlmutter, a graduate of the Technion (Israel’s MIT) who’d started designing chips at Intel Israel in 1980.10 One of these unconventional ideas was a way to get around the power wall. Rony Friedman was one of Intel Israel’s top engineers at the time. Just for fun, he had been tinkering with a way to produce low-power chips, which went blatantly against the prevailing orthodoxy that the only way to make chips faster was to deliver more power to their transistors. This, he thought, was a bit like making cars go faster by revving their engines harder. There was definitely a connection between the speed of the engine and the speed of the car, but at some point the engine would go too fast, get too hot, and the car would have to slow down.11

Friedman and the Israeli team realized that the solution to the problem was something like a gear system in a car: if you could change gears, you could run the engine more slowly while still making the car go faster. In a chip, this was accomplished differently, by splitting the instructions fed into the chip. But the effect was similar: the transistors in Intel Israel’s low-power chips did not need to flip on and off as fast, yet, in a process analogous to shifting a car into high gear, they were able to run software faster.

When Intel’s Israel team euphorically introduced its innovation to headquarters in Santa Clara, the engineers thought their bosses would be thrilled. What could be better than a car that goes faster without overheating? Yet what the Israeli team saw as an asset—that the engine turned more slowly—headquarters saw as a big problem. After all, the entire industry measured the power of chips by how fast the engine turned: clock speed.

It did not matter that Israeli chips ran software faster. The computer’s engine—composed of its chip’s transistors—wasn’t turning on and off fast enough. Wall Street analysts would opine on the attractiveness (or unattractiveness) of Intel’s stock based on performance along a parameter that said, Faster clock speed: Buy; Slower clock speed: Sell. Trying to persuade the industry and the press that this metric was obsolete was a nonstarter. This was especially the case because Intel had itself created—through Moore’s law—the industry’s Pavlovian attachment to clock speed. It was tantamount to trying to convince Ford to abandon its quest for more horsepower or telling Tiffany’s that carat size does not matter.

“We weren’t in the mainstream—clock speed was king and we were on the outside,” Israel’s Rony Friedman recalls.12

The head of Intel’s chip division, Paul Otellini, tried to mothball the whole project. The clock-speed doctrine was enshrined among Intel’s brass, and they weren’t about to hold a seminar to decide whether or not to change it.

The “seminar” is part of a culture that Israelis know well, going back to the founding of the state. From the end of March to the end of May 1947, David Ben-Gurion—Israel’s George Washington—conducted an inquiry into the military readiness of Jewish Palestine, in anticipation of the war he knew would come when Israel declared independence. He spent days and nights meeting with, probing, and listening to military men up and down the ranks. More than six months before the United Nations passed its partition plan for dividing Palestine into a Jewish and an Arab state, Ben-Gurion was keenly aware that the next phase in the Arab-Israeli conflict would be very different from the war the pre-state Jewish militias had been fighting; they needed to step back, in the midst of ongoing fighting, and plan for the existential threats that were nearing.

At the end of the seminar, Ben-Gurion wrote of the men’s confidence in their readiness: “We have to undertake difficult work—to uproot from the hearts of men who are close to the matter the belief that they have something. In fact, they have nothing. They have good will, they have hidden capacities, but they have to know: to make a shoe one has to study cobbling.”13

Intel’s Otellini didn’t know it, but his Israeli team was giving him a similar message. They saw that Intel was headed for the “power wall.” Instead of waiting to ram into it, the Israelis wanted Otellini to avert it by taking a step back, discarding conventional thinking, and considering a fundamental change in the company’s technological approach.

The executives in Santa Clara were ready to strangle the Israeli team, according to some of those on the receiving end of Intel Israel’s “pestering.” The Israelis were making the twenty-hour trip between Tel Aviv and California so frequently that they seemed omnipresent, always ready to corner an executive in the hallway or even a restroom—anything to argue their case. David Perlmutter spent one week each month in the Santa Clara headquarters, and he used much of his time there to press the Israeli team’s case.

One point the Israelis tried to make was that while there was risk in abandoning the clock-speed doctrine, there was even greater risk in sticking with it. Dov Frohman, the founder of Intel Israel, later said that to create a true culture of innovation, “fear of loss often proves more powerful than the hope of gain.”14

Frohman had long tried to cultivate a culture of disagreement and debate at Intel Israel, and he had hoped this ethos would infect Santa Clara. “The goal of a leader,” he said, “should be to maximize resistance—in the sense of encouraging disagreement and dissent. When an organization is in crisis, lack of resistance can itself be a big problem. It can mean that the change you are trying to create isn’t radical enough . . . or that the opposition has gone underground. If you aren’t even aware that the people in the organization disagree with you, then you are in trouble.”

In time, the Israelis outlasted—and outargued—their U.S. supervisors. Each time the Israelis showed up, they had better research and better data, one Intel executive recalled. Soon they had a seemingly bulletproof case as to where the industry was heading. Intel could either lead in that direction, the Israelis told management, or become obsolete.

Finally, this time as CEO, Otellini changed his mind. It had become impossible to counter the Israelis’ overwhelming research—not to mention their persistence. In March 2003, the new chip—code-named Banias after a natural spring in Israel’s north—was released as the Centrino chip for laptops. Its clock speed was only a bit more than half of the reigning 2.8 gigahertz Pentium chips for desktops, and it sold for more than twice the price. But it gave laptop users the portability and speed they needed.

The switch to the Israeli-designed approach came to be known in Intel and the industry as the “right turn,” since it was a sharp change in approach from simply going for higher and higher clock speeds without regard to heat output or power needs. Intel began to apply the “right turn” paradigm not just to chips for laptops but to chips for desktops, as well. Looking back, the striking thing about Intel Israel’s campaign for the new architecture was that the engineers were really just doing their jobs. They cared about the future of the whole company; the fight wasn’t about winning a battle within Intel, it was about winning the war with the competition.

As a result, the new Israeli-designed architecture, once derided within the company, was a runaway hit. It became the anchor of Intel’s 13 percent sales growth from 2003 to 2005. But Intel was not clear of industry threats yet. Despite the initial success, by 2006, new competition caused Intel’s market share to plummet to its lowest point in eleven years. Profits soon plunged 42 percent as the company cut prices to retain its dominant position.15

The bright spot in 2006, however, came in late July when Otellini unveiled the Core 2 Duo chips, Intel’s successors to the Pentium. The Core Duo chips applied Israel’s “right turn” concept plus another Israeli development, called dual-core processing, that sped chips up even further. “These are the best microprocessors we’ve ever designed, the best we’ve ever built,’’ he told an audience of five hundred in a festive tent at Intel’s Santa Clara headquarters. “This is not just incremental change; it’s a revolutionary leap.” Screens lit up with images of the proud engineers behind the new chip; they were joining the celebration via satellite, from Haifa, Israel. Though Intel’s stock was down 19 percent over the whole year, it jumped 16 percent after the July announcement. Intel went on to release forty new processors over a one-hundred-day period, most of them based on the Israeli team’s design.

From: Start-Up Nation, The Story of Israel's Economic Miracle, by Dan Senor and Saul Singer.

**zraver** · 01 Jul 13,, 13:58

Originally posted by bigross86 View Post

Everything else in your post is the same willful misinterpretation that Troung is making, so I'm gonna ignore it. I will address your last point, however:

willful, but not misinterpreted. If we want just one international standard to deal with nations that call themselves democracies but act like dictatorships... Then surely ven you would admit that Israel is getting off easy compared to Aparthied South Africa.

The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel . Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel. More current Intel chips, including the i5 and the i7, build upon the Pentium/Centrino technology.

Intel is an American company, but it was Israeli people with Israeli brains in an Israeli building, yes, in Israel that created Intel's microprocessor.

Doubt all the people the were Israeli... Multi-nationals employ people from multiple nations after all... At the end of the day its still an American product created with American money for an American company to be used in other American inventions...

**bigross86** · 01 Jul 13,, 15:08

It might be an American product, but do you deny that the Israelis are the ones that invented it? Without Israelis pushing the idea, even to the point of harassment, it might have happened eventually, but we'll never know.

And for the last time, I'm most definitely not getting into this argument again, Israel is not an Apartheid state. We have many threads where I've dispelled that claim over and over and over and over again. You must be really bored if you want to bring the topic up again. So let's do something like this: You read over the old threads where I prove you wrong about a dozen times or so, and I can keep studying for my finals, and everybody wins.

**troung** · 01 Jul 13,, 23:13

It's late, and I honestly can't even be bothered to explain to you how wrong you are. Even if I did it wouldn't make the slightest difference.

Quick to back down.

I've got a test later today. Good night.

21st century equivalent of "I hear my mother calling me."

Everything else in your post is the same willful misinterpretation that Troung is making, so I'm gonna ignore it. I will address your last point, however:

You posted an article complaining abut BDS from a moonbat website which sees antisemitic conspiracies in bowls of cereal, you stated in post 4 that you posted it as an experiment to prove antisemitism, pull the race card, then run when called out on it. You are pathetic. Unlike the Chinabots you at least grew up in an English speaking nation and somehow manage to fall far short of their PR work.

Stay losing.

**zraver** · 02 Jul 13,, 00:16

Originally posted by bigross86 View Post

It might be an American product, but do you deny that the Israelis are the ones that invented it? Without Israelis pushing the idea, even to the point of harassment, it might have happened eventually, but we'll never know.

Maybe, we'll never know.

And for the last time, I'm most definitely not getting into this argument again, Israel is not an Apartheid state. We have many threads where I've dispelled that claim over and over and over and over again. You must be really bored if you want to bring the topic up again. So let's do something like this: You read over the old threads where I prove you wrong about a dozen times or so, and I can keep studying for my finals, and everybody wins.

First you've never dispelled it, but you are the one who wanted to compare your nation to anther. I simply pointed out that compared to Apartheid South Africa, Israel is getting off easy. So run along and whine to whoever will listen to get this thread shut down as well now that the ax you wanted to grind has been turned on you.

BR- 1. start thread accusing others of being antisemitism. 2. when confronted deny, deny and deny some more. 3. when presented with facts, go cry until someone locks the thread. 4. wait a short period of time and start all over. Its WAB's version of whack-a-mole. You are the only person who is such an active member of the community who routinely feels the need to engage in nationalistic chest thumping.

**Minskaya** · 02 Jul 13,, 07:56

I'm going to do you all a favor and cap this thread before it degenerates even further. Thread closed.

Announcement

A modest proposal for a new ‘Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions’ campaign

A modest proposal for a new ‘Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions’ campaign

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