When the Iowas were reactivated, what escort ships did they have?

[wacopolumbo]

Hi all,

I'm interested in knowing what the battle group make-up was for the Iowas during the 80s. I understand they operated as heir own action groups and with carriers. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Jody

[Doktor]

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/bat...tml#post502864

1986

[wacopolumbo]

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/bat...tml#post502864

1986

Thanks for the link with the picture. I am an Air Force guy, so I am not smart on frontal ship visual identification. I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me, for example, when on their own battle group, they had X Frigates, X Cruisers, X Destroyers and when with a carrier battle group if they had any additional dedicated escorts aside from the carrier's escorts.

Regards,
Jody

[Ytlas]

Thanks for the link with the picture. I am an Air Force guy, so I am not smart on frontal ship visual identification. I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me, for example, when on their own battle group, they had X Frigates, X Cruisers, X Destroyers and when with a carrier battle group if they had any additional dedicated escorts aside from the carrier's escorts.

Regards,
Jody

The City At Sea link might be misleading since on the starboard beam of the New Jersey was the USS Long Beach. There may have been four Iowas, but only one USS Long Beach.

Wikipedia says Carrier battle group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"During the period when the American navy recommissioned all four of its Iowa-class battleships, it sometimes used a similar formation centered on a battleship, referred to as a battleship battle group (BBBG). It was alternately referred to as a Surface Action Group (SAG)."

[TopHatter]

Thanks for the link with the picture. I am an Air Force guy, so I am not smart on frontal ship visual identification. I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me, for example, when on their own battle group, they had X Frigates, X Cruisers, X Destroyers and when with a carrier battle group if they had any additional dedicated escorts aside from the carrier's escorts.

Regards,
Jody

Typically they were the same escorts as the carriers, except usually a bit more "second-tier", as the battleships were meant to operate in lower threat-level areas, thus freeing up more carriers for the higher-level areas.

You'd see Knox-class and Perry-class frigates, Spruance-class and Adams-class destroyers, maybe an early non-VLS Ticonderoga-class cruiser.

[RustyBattleship]

Generally speaking, the Battleships traditionally had one or two Destroyer type escorts. When the New Jersey was reactivated in 1968, her escort was the USS England (CG-22).

When we reactivated her in 1982, on our sea trials we had a helicopter dragging a metal seeking device looking for non-American submarines as our lead escort. Off to port a DE-1052 class Frigate was escorting us on our high speed run (all ahead Flank for 8 hours). That escort had to use too much fuel and halfway through the run was replaced by a FFG-7 class Frigate.

When the Big J was called up for Lebanon, she left her escorts behind in Florida and went at full speed across the Atlantic un-escorted. That way she could make it across with still lots of fuel when she entered the Med. Otherwise she would have to slow down to refuel her own escorts or all had to hang around until a tanker showed up.

But that was special circumstances. Normally all BB's have at least one Destroyer type escort or are part of a Battle Group that includes an Aircraft Carrier, at least half-a-dozen escorts and one or two supply ships.

For comparison, you may be the Wyatt Earp on the block with your Buntline Special Colt .45 to use the long barrel as a billy club to knock out a drunk. But you also had one or both of your brothers (Virgil and Morgan) nearby as back up.

[DonBelt]

We did ops in the Caribbean with Iowa class BB's when I was on the Stump. We refueled from her and also had PHM's unrep from her as well. This was in the late 80's, not sure which BB it was anymore. It was always impressive to operate with the Iowa's- it was kinda like going out on town when you were a teen with your older 6' 5" cousin, everyone gives you a wide berth and you felt a few inches taller thru being with him.

[GrayGhost1975]

We did ops in the Caribbean with Iowa class BB's when I was on the Stump. We refueled from her and also had PHM's unrep from her as well. This was in the late 80's, not sure which BB it was anymore. It was always impressive to operate with the Iowa's- it was kinda like going out on town when you were a teen with your older 6' 5" cousin, everyone gives you a wide berth and you felt a few inches taller thru being with him.

An Iowa refueled a PHM?!? Did ANYONE get any pictures of that?

[Dreadnought]

The New Jersey operated with several different groups pending the operations/exercises. Here are a few...

Westpac 86-Battlegroup Romeo with USS New Jersey as the centerpiece. Ships are BB62 New Jersey,Long Beach (CGN-9), Wabash (AOR-5), Merrill (DD-976), Copeland (FFG-25) and Thatch (FFG-43).

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016261.jpg

Rimpac 88 -New Jersey (BB-62) leading the American battle line. She is followed by the battleship Missouri (BB-63) and the nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser Long Beach (CGN-9) with other screening vessels following astern of the cruiser. The photograph was taken from the fantail of the Enterprise (CVN-65), possibly during exercise RIMPAC '88 during Jul 1988.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016224z.jpg

*Probably one of the very best shots of New Jersey IMO.

The New Jersey (BB-62) follows the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Enterprise (CVN-65) during Fleet Exercise '89, on 14 Oct 1989

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162009.jpg

*Flagship Rear Admiral (Upper Half) (later Vice Admiral) J.P.Reason during Battlegroup (BBBG) Romeo 1990.

[DonBelt]

I'll dig around and see what I can find.

[wacopolumbo]

Dreadnought, thanks for the ID on the ships in the first picture and the other information.

DonBelt, Thanks, I look forward to seeing what you find.

[TopHatter]

I've been doing some searching around, found a few tidbits here and there. Not entirely sure about the accuracy though, so take it with a grain of salt:

A Battleship Battle Group consisted of one Ticonderoga-class cruiser, one Kidd-class destroyer or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, one Spruance-class destroyer, three Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates and one support ship, such as a fleet oiler. ~ The Complete Book of U.S. Fighting Power

That sounds a bit optimistic to me, but YMMV.

[wacopolumbo]

I've been doing some searching around, found a few tidbits here and there. Not entirely sure about the accuracy though, so take it with a grain of salt:

A Battleship Battle Group consisted of one Ticonderoga-class cruiser, one Kidd-class destroyer or Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, one Spruance-class destroyer, three Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigates and one support ship, such as a fleet oiler. ~ The Complete Book of U.S. Fighting Power

That sounds a bit optimistic to me, but YMMV.

Thanks!

[Dreadnought]

Dreadnought, thanks for the ID on the ships in the first picture and the other information.

DonBelt, Thanks, I look forward to seeing what you find.

Your welcome. I would also venture to say somewhere lurking close by is atleast 1 US attack sub.


Also take note that unlike some "other" countries theoretical battlegroups we dont include tugs.

Your escorts will change pending upon what theatre you are operating in and what ships are attached to those groups or stationed near by with their respective Fleet commands.

Exercises ofcoarse are different.

[desertswo]

Thanks!

I'm late to the party, but I'll throw in my dos centavos. Typically, a BBBG was AAW heavy. Why? Because the battleship had all the gun fire power the battle group needed and was the main strike platform whether the mission was War at Sea or Power Projection forward from the sea, so protecting the strike platform, and themselves, from the AAW and ASW threat dictated the presence of ships the primary mission of which was AAW, but were flexible in the ASW environment as well. So typically, two guided missile cruisers, a Ticonderoga if there was one available, but Belknap or Leahy-class if not (one designated as Alpha Whiskey . . . the AAW commander), a guided missile destroyer, a guided missile frigate, one Spruance-class (designated Alpha X-Ray . . . the ASW commander), and a fast replenishment ship, preferably an AOE 1 or AOE 3-class. The battleship would serve as Alpha Sierra, the Anti-Surface Warfare (ASUW) commander. They may or may not have had a DESRON commander riding the Spruance-class, but they certainly would have a RADM riding the battleship as battle group commander. The Spruance and the frigate would handle most of the ASW chores with their towed arrays and embarked helos. One of the cruisers would usually operate detached out on the threat axis to serve as a tripwire in case of incoming air raids.

I know this was the make-up of at least one BBBG because the mission of my ship was to "kill" the battleship. Prior to their deployment in 1987 (and the BB in question was USS Missouri), several San Diego-based ships, including mine, USS Brooke (FFG 1) were tasked with forming an adversary surface action group (SAG) to emulate Soviet ships and their tactics. We were supposed to be a Krivak II-class frigate. We shadowed them in the SOCAL OPAREA and then used some pretty good OPDEC (we rigged lights to sort of make us look kind of ambiguous, like maybe one of the party boats that take people offshore to gamble) one night to move in close enough, and then put a bag of four simulated SS-N-14s in Missouri's guts. We got nailed before we could make good our escape, but we felt we had died a glorious death for Mother Russia.