New earth like planet found

[zraver]

Conversely, one could genuinely posit that the technological ability of a species to implement interstellar travel is possible only if the species itself has managed to avoid technological Armageddon. This in turn implies an ascendant chirality of peace, prosperity, and coexistence.

or genocide... The world has put many people in space through bilateral agreements. Yet at the same time we've seen how many recent genocides? Even in Europe with CERN we have in recent memory Bosnia. Competition and war drive technology.

[zraver]

I have to track down the source again but I recently read an article which reviewed the Drake Equation based on our observations in the fields of astrophysics, astrobiology and astronomy. The end figure was a rather depressing best "guestimate" that there are only about 25 techic civilizations in our galaxy at any one time. If accurate this places places the nearest alien civilization thousands of light years away. So its highly unlikely at this point in time that ET has come a knocking.

On the opposite end of that is the 100 billion argument. The Milk Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, if 1% of them have planets with life that is between 1-4 billion planets. If 1% of them have advanced life that is 10-40 million. If 1% of them have intelligent life that is 100-400,000. If 1% of them have technological cultures that is 1-4000. If 1% exist in the same time scale as us that is 10-40 technological civilizations right now in the Milkyway alone. If 1% of them makes it to the stars (this is where it breaks down)...

Obviously the closer to the galactic center, the harder it will be for life to get a start. But on the edges where we are life might be common. Planets sure appear to be the norm not the exception. Then there is the fact that there are roughly 100 billion galaxies. Figure an average of 100 billion stars each... For ever 100 galaxies there should be one space faring race at any given time which is still 1 billion space faring races. And like dice, they are not bound by the law of averages. There could be 1, 2 or more such races in the Milkway in a type of cosmic traffic jam and its still the small distribution over all as if they were galaxies apart.

Also it is appearing increasingly likely that while Einstein wasn't wrong, neither was he right. Super Luminal travel might not be the only way to get from here to there quickly. Since the speed of light is a local speed limit, we might even find a way to break it as well.

[Monash]

On the opposite end of that is the 100 billion argument. The Milk Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, if 1% of them have planets with life that is between 1-4 billion planets. If 1% of them have advanced life that is 10-40 million. If 1% of them have intelligent life that is 100-400,000. If 1% of them have technological cultures that is 1-4000. If 1% exist in the same time scale as us that is 10-40 technological civilizations right now in the Milky Way alone. If 1% of them makes it to the stars (this is where it breaks down)...

That was sought of point. The scientists in question used our most recent observations and experimental data the number of technological advanced civilizations would appear to be extremely limited (although the length of time any such civilization could endure is purely speculative). There might be literally thousands of near sentient or per-technological species in existence (As they say in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - keep banging those rocks together guys!) but it may be the rule that few if any make it into space before local disasters e.g meteor strikes etc take them out.

[Minskaya]

or genocide... The world has put many people in space through bilateral agreements. Yet at the same time we've seen how many recent genocides? Even in Europe with CERN we have in recent memory Bosnia. Competition and war drive technology.

To borrow from Carl Sagan, broad and grandiose assumptions based on only one exemplar (our species) is bad science and faulty philosophy.

[Officer of Engineers]

To borrow from Carl Sagan, broad and grandiose assumptions based on only one exemplar (our species) is bad science and faulty philosophy.

Not really and based upon our own experience, it may not be our biological selves to travel the stars but our machine decedents which means the biological drive to genocide as suggested by Jason is altogether avoided.

[Minskaya]

Not really and based upon our own experience, it may not be our biological selves to travel the stars but our machine decedents which means the biological drive to genocide as suggested by Jason is altogether avoided.

Unless exotic forms of propulsion or conveyance are available, artificial proxies are virtually a must for galactic and intergalactic exploration. It is indeed difficult to envision the logic inputs of AI contaminated with derelict behaviors such as wanton destruction and genocide. Even at this early stage of exploration we invoke measures to protect alien life against Earth-borne viruii and bacteria etc.

[tankie]

Really high chances that on Dec 3rd Earth will have a sister planet with life on it. The odds on favorite for curiosity is that she duplicated a test performed by one of the Mariner landers and has detected organic gasses released by life on Mars.

Like these perhaps , they sure look odd and a vid taken by mars spirit , allegedly.

Strange marks on the ground taken on the surface of Mars by Curiosity

http://youtu.be/OiV4e8COGKU

[tankie]

UFO Digest Newsletter November 30, 2012 ;)

[Chogy]

Like these perhaps , they sure look odd and a vid taken by mars spirit , allegedly.

Strange marks on the ground taken on the surface of Mars by Curiosity

UFO in Mars Spirit Rover Photo Rocket Shaped - YouTube

OK, that is truly, truly weird. Initially, I thought the black dots were added to the photo to show the angle of some sand drift, but the black dots (holes?) apparently are real. If so, that is pretty damned strange. Almost like worm holes or something.

[Chogy]

There was an article in a recent Discover magazine detailaing a scientist who explores ultra-deep life, as in, miles beneath our feet.

In a nutshell, what he found was astounding. There is a species of bacteria that lives in iron-rich, radioactive soil. The radiation supplies hydrogen via its interaction with the moisture. The bacteria then reduce iron for energy using hydrogen.

So these little guys require only a tiny handful of materials for life:

1) radiation, low level
2) iron
3) subsurface moisture

Nothing else. I can easily see any number of planets or moons that have these in abundance 2 or 3 or 50 miles beneath the crust. The moons of the gas giants are heated tidally. Europa is nothing but deep water over rock... go down deep enough, it's probably going to be liquid. Fascinating stuff.

[zraver]

To borrow from Carl Sagan, broad and grandiose assumptions based on only one exemplar (our species) is bad science and faulty philosophy.

Do Dolphins, Killer Whales and sharks get along? How about lions and hyenas, colonies of strange ants, wolves and coyotes? Apex predators tend to be unable to tolerate the presence of another apex species. We see this across multiple types of life on Earth, even some plants would rather kill than compete. Competition seems to be part of life.

[Zinja]

It makes me believe in God.

You will be ostracised for that, that is no science

[Minskaya]

Competition seems to be part of (Earth) life.

Fixed it for ya. You are assuming above that the tenets of astrobiology dictate the metrics of cosmic life. That is indeed one possibility. However, the disciplines of exobiology and xenobiology have demonstrated that life based on foreign chemistry is also a valid hypothesis. To posit that alien life must mirror our biological and evolutionary stratagems is both shortsighted and arrogant.

[USSWisconsin]

You will be ostracised for that, that is no science

Not really - many scientists believe in God - there is a difference between they way different people believe in God. Some people have a harmonious faith and understanding of science. I don't cite God in scientific work - and don't attempt to apply physics or mathematics to God.

The layman's concept that science has all the answers is as much a religion as any other. Any good scientist understands that we humans don't know much at all - we are aware of a small part of the whole picture.

[zraver]

Fixed it for ya. You are assuming above that the tenets of astrobiology dictate the metrics of cosmic life. That is indeed one possibility. However, the disciplines of exobiology and xenobiology have demonstrated that life based on foreign chemistry is also a valid hypothesis. To posit that alien life must mirror our biological and evolutionary stratagems is both shortsighted and arrogant.

To assume otherwise given so much empirical evidence is foolish. It is not up to us to be peaceful but for whoever we encounter to prove they are peaceful lest they be exterminated. To take anyother view leaves us in danger of being the ones exterminated if contact is made. After all, evolution is driven by challenges, those that survive get to pass on their genes. This is goign to hold true across life et al. To make it to the stars, to waste the treasure to reach another planet implies a history of conflict, competition and challenges stretching back to the primordial soup.