Apache Attack

[Mihais]

While they are being still, their military value is absolutely zero. They might as well be scattered into a thousand pieces for all the good they are doing.

Zero is way better than negative.We're fortunate they don't have a potent weapon system able to deal with helicopters.And that they don't really grasp the finer technical details.

[Chogy]

How hard is it to defeat FLIR?

For example what if each man carriers an reflective blanket, scatter randomly after first hit , deploy blankets and be still? Would it work? It seems like they are doing a lot of specific targetting in the video. With no clear targets limited ammo could be even more problematic.

If the blanket is at ambient temperature, for a short time, they might seem to "disappear". Eventually, body heat is going to leak through the blanket unless it is exceptionally thick, and you're going to start to see glowing mounds. From a practicality standpoint, I don't think it's going to work.

I'd hate to be the guy forced to field test it.

[TopHatter]

Zero is way better than negative.We're fortunate they don't have a potent weapon system able to deal with helicopters.And that they don't really grasp the finer technical details.

I would submit that a combatant who is not moving, shooting or doing anything other than huddling to the ground as motionless as possible, is very much a negative.

[bigross86]

AC in tanks?

And no room for extra boxers? Hmm...

Oh, we had plenty room, but none of us brought that many because we weren't meant to be in for that long

[Doktor]

Oh, we had plenty room, but none of us brought that many because we weren't meant to be in for that long

Are there female only crews for the tanks?

If so, where they put 7 bags for 3 days training?

[Albany Rifles]

I hope you realize I was very much joking, and when it comes to Army, Navy, or Marine operations, I am little more than an enthusiastic fanboy who wants to see guys do good, considering 3/3 of my kids are in the Army.

Chogy,

My bad....didnt realize it was you I was answering.

However, the reality of forward deployed vice in hard surfaces is a true consideration for weapon systems procurred by the Army.

And I believe the problem with the APERS round for the 30mm is a matter of ROI...couldnt get effective standoff and the requisite accuracy.

It was better to have the the HEDP round with its frag capacity because of longer range.

AR

[Albany Rifles]

How hard is it to defeat FLIR?

For example what if each man carriers an reflective blanket, scatter randomly after first hit , deploy blankets and be still? Would it work? It seems like they are doing a lot of specific targetting in the video. With no clear targets limited ammo could be even more problematic.

To be effective it would have to be pretty thick...which means extra weight and the difficulty of carrying it on top of everything else being carried.

[Doktor]

To be effective it would have to be pretty thick...which means extra weight and the difficulty of carrying it on top of everything else being carried.

Wouldn't that extra blanket make them also a target? Or everything that moves, or seems to be moving?

[TopHatter]

Are there female only crews for the tanks?

If so, where they put 7 bags for 3 days training?

Why do you think turret bustles were invented?

[Albany Rifles]

Wouldn't that extra blanket make them also a target? Or everything that moves, or seems to be moving?

That's just piling on!

I just think it an impractical idea.

[Chogy]

The blanket would have to be unbelievably thick and very large (surface area) to work. Think of a material as thick as an arctic sleeping bag, spread out to measure probably 3 x 3 meters. If they attempted to use something like a canvas, plastic, or mylar painter's tarp, their body heat would penetrate the blanket in less than a minute, and you'd end up with a scattered cluster of glowing mounds. The notion is impractical on a number of levels.

There is a company working on some very exotic coatings for vehicles that greatly reduces a thermal signature, but it is not something the Taliban are going to either obtain or use, and I don't know how it would work on some sort of emergency, flexible tarp device.

Slightly OT - The history of thermal imaging and night vision is fascinating. The earliest devices were used in WW2:



Interesting is that they used this first device on the M-1 carbine, a short-ranged weapon, rather than the Garand or Springfield, because the range of the IR device itself overlapped the carbine's effective range.

I had a Marine buddy with a Vietnam-vintage starlight scope, a passive device. It was remarkably effective given its age.

[bigross86]

Are there female only crews for the tanks?

If so, where they put 7 bags for 3 days training?

No wimmenfolk in the tanks, as of yet. The instructors are wimmen, but the combat units only have men

[Albany Rifles]

No wimmenfolk in the tanks, as of yet. The instructors are wimmen, but the combat units only have men

Well, if we are giving Benny the benefit of the doubt and agreeing he is a man....okay I guess.:Dancing-Banana:;)

[Stitch]

Slightly OT - The history of thermal imaging and night vision is fascinating. The earliest devices were used in WW2:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30646[/ATTACH]

Interesting is that they used this first device on the M-1 carbine, a short-ranged weapon, rather than the Garand or Springfield, because the range of the IR device itself overlapped the carbine's effective range.

I had a Marine buddy with a Vietnam-vintage starlight scope, a passive device. It was remarkably effective given its age.

The Germans also developed an active IR system called Zielgerät 1229 (ZG 1229), or Vampir, in 1944 for use with the StG 44 assault rifle. It was a little unwieldy, and was better suited to mounting on a vehicle, like a tank or an APC, but it was fairly effective.

[Skull6]

And S-2 assures that the weather will be wonderful and enemy resistance will be nil...

Trust me.;)

Sir, you just gave me another case of the shakes with the flashback your 1st line caused. I continue to try to be the optimist & assume that my previous Intel guys actually thought this was the truth when they said it. ;)

Good thing it's Friday, & almost quitting time. "Must...grab...shot glass!"