PBS Show on the "Ulfbreht" Viking Swords--Highly Recommended.

[Triple C]

Volga trade route,as well as ''the road from the Varangians to the Greeks'' only closed after the Mongol invasion.
Without watching the film,something smells fishy.Northmen valued the Frankish swords highly,especially those made on the Rhine area.Frankish kings punished the merchants that sold,swords,blades or even raw materials to the Northmen by death.

Yes, but no evidence of crucible steel produced at the time. It would be strange that only Frankish swords sold to the Vikings were made of crucible steel, yes?

Also the technique itself was not new,nor unique.Saxon swords from the 6th-7th centuries were made similarly,as well as Gepid ones or the Visigothic swords in Spain(hint,Toledo).that such things are only now ''discovered'' speaks more about pro-Asian bias in modern historians(or simply,their lack of interest).

Point in contention. The argument is that none of those groups used crucible steel--not the Romans, Gepids, Visigoths, the Franks and specifically not the Japanese, which the show pointed out. Their sword making was critiqued as ways to compensate for inferior material.

Crucible steel technology is well known in historiography to be contained in Persia, India, and China.

Viking swords are not being discussed as a generic group. They are talking about a very specific batch of rare weapons that was head and shoulder above other Viking weapons, or European weapons at the time. IIRC, of the 44 swords bearing the inscriptions tested, less than a dozen was made of high quality steel. They all bear the correctly spelled inscription. We are not talking about Viking swords as a generic group of objects, which the Ulfberhts are clearly not.

There was a rage that lasted for decades of the refined Asian martial artists,who used technique,while the brutish Europeans only used force.Until somebody noticed that there were German or Italian manuals that described close quarter battle ,unarmed or with all sorts of weapons,to a degree that made the Shaolin monks ignorants in the arts of fighting.I suspect a similar revolution is under way wrt the knowledge on Western technology and social life of the early medieval era.

There is no pro-Asian bias detectable in that episode. The people consulted were experts of Viking artifacts, a historical western martial artist, and a metal work artist whose passion in life is making Viking swords.

[Chogy]

Come on... you know you want it...

"Who would win in a fight? 100 vikings with Ulfbreht swords vs. 100 Samurai?" ;)

[USSWisconsin]

Come on... you know you want it...

"Who would win in a fight? 100 vikings with Ulfbreht swords vs. 100 Samurai?" ;)

one barge with a GAU-8 and a few tons of ammo would turn them all into red fog and bone splinters

[zraver]

Come on... you know you want it...

"Who would win in a fight? 100 vikings with Ulfbreht swords vs. 100 Samurai?" ;)

same time period.... Vikings hands down.

Vikings- steel armor designed to resist slashing attacks, heavy swords designed to crush, chop and thrust, or axes, heavy shields Berserkers who fought in formation. Plus they were much larger and stronger physically as attested to in ancient records.

vs

Samurai- light swords designed the slash, wooden armor (vs axes... really....), arrow heads not designed to pierce mail, no stirrups (no shock cavalry) ritualized approach to combat but were not soldiers.

[Triple C]

OK, thread is officially jacked.

Samurai at this period did not have their famous swords yet, if I am not mistaken? And there is the small matter of the Vikings being physically bigger.

[Doktor]

Come on... you know you want it...

"Who would win in a fight? 100 vikings with Ulfbreht swords vs. 100 Samurai?" ;)

The one with better archers.

Tho I like Whiskey's way more.

[zraver]

OK, thread is officially jacked.

Samurai at this period did not have their famous swords yet, if I am not mistaken? And there is the small matter of the Vikings being physically bigger.

Much physically bigger, they were the size of man in 2012....

[Stitch]

Much physically bigger, they were the size of man in 2012....

Agreed; 6' was NOT uncommon among Vikings in the Middle Ages. There were several notable Vikings who probably topped 6' 6". Compare that to the AVERAGE height of an Oriental at 5' in the same timeframe. . . . . .

[zraver]

Agreed; 6' was NOT uncommon among Vikings in the Middle Ages. There were several notable Vikings who probably topped 6' 6". Compare that to the AVERAGE height of an Oriental at 5' in the same timeframe. . . . . .

A clash between samurai and vikings would lead to some poor Japanese experiencing the blood eagle...

[Officer of Engineers]

Replace the Vikings with the Mongols and you have the exact history that happened.

[zraver]

Replace the Vikings with the Mongols and you have the exact history that happened.

The Vikings would not be landing using river barges...

[Officer of Engineers]

The Vikings would also not massed a 30,000 invasion force

[Mihais]

The Vikings would also not massed a 30,000 invasion force

15000 was within reach for vikings.They move faster,mass faster and have unity of command.The only ones that could defeat decisevely vikings at the time were the Byzantines,but they were under the leadership of some of their finest commanders,had Greek fire and cataphracts.And an actual navy,which is even more decisive than the land component.

[Officer of Engineers]

I have no doubt that the Vikings would prove decisive on the battlefield but the point is that the Japanese learned and adapted. There was a big difference between the 1st and 2nd Mongol invasions. And unless the Vikings could amass Japanese allies, their numbers were woefully inadequate to conquer Japan.

[citanon]

Samurai- light swords designed the slash.....

Ok, the definitive word on this issue :

Fun starts at 6 min.

Of course, this didn't exist in the 10th century.