Are Historians Now Overstating the Role of the U.S.S.R. in defeating Nazi Germany?

[Blademaster]

Would seizing Iceland tilt the battle in favor of Germany?

[zraver]

Would seizing Iceland tilt the battle in favor of Germany?

In some sort of alterverse where Germany could seize and successfully hold Iceland and base Luftwaffe aircraft from it, as well as the coasts of France and Norway... The UK is forced from the war in short order. Iceland controls the sea lanes between the UK and the US/Canada.

[Blademaster]

In some sort of alterverse where Germany could seize and successfully hold Iceland and base Luftwaffe aircraft from it, as well as the coasts of France and Norway... The UK is forced from the war in short order. Iceland controls the sea lanes between the UK and the US/Canada.

Hmmm so instead of continuing the Battle of Britain and waste resources, I would utilize German war machine to confine the Brit military to the island and use the invasion force on Iceland and Greenland and cut off Britain. Canada would be hard pressed with Iceland in Germany's control because Germany would have a landbase to launch sea patrols and cut down convoys. Could the RN stage a counterinvasion and retake Iceland?

[Doktor]

Simple laws of physics wont allow same amount of German men and material to be in many places at once.

France, BoB, Barbarossa and now Iceland?

With what navy they'd do that? And are we talking the same warmachine that couldn't take Malta?

[Blademaster]

Simple laws of physics wont allow same amount of German men and material to be in many places at once.

France, BoB, Barbarossa and now Iceland?

With what navy they'd do that? And are we talking the same warmachine that couldn't take Malta?

i would not launch Barbarossa until I get the western front locked up. No sense in fighting two fronts at one time. If I can win the Battle of Atlantic and seize Iceland and devote my attention to sinking the RN and creating a blockade around the British Isles, I would go much further than Operation Barbarossa.

I never understood why OOE and others discount the production capability of mainland Europe once Hitler secured the continent. It would have produced more numbers than Russia or Canada could ever hope to produce by virtue of a bigger and better trained population and more resources. And after sidelining Britain, I would devote more resources to taking North Africa and make the Med Sea a German lake and obtain the natural raw resources that Africa has to offer. That means seizing Gibraltar and Malta.

[zraver]

Hitler had zero chance of beating the RN and controlling Iceland long enough to matter.

[Blademaster]

Hitler had zero chance of beating the RN and controlling Iceland long enough to matter.

That is because the German Navy believed in the concept of one big battle like the Battle of Jutland. What they needed to established a safe area for its U-boats to patrol without worry from naval planes spotting them. Any convoys would have to go through gauntlet and very little would escape.

[zraver]

That is because the German Navy believed in the concept of one big battle like the Battle of Jutland. What they needed to established a safe area for its U-boats to patrol without worry from naval planes spotting them. Any convoys would have to go through gauntlet and very little would escape.

No, the German navy was too small to wrest control of the seas from the UK. From navalhistory.net

The Royal Navy, still the largest in the world in September 1939, included:

15 Battleships & battlecruisers, of which only two were post-World War 1. Five 'King George V' class battleships were building.

7 Aircraft carriers. One was new and five of the planned six fleet carriers were under construction. There were no escort carriers.

66 Cruisers, mainly post-World War 1 with some older ships converted for AA duties. Including cruiser-minelayers, 23 new ones had been laid down.

184 Destroyers of all types. Over half were modern, with 15 of the old 'V' and 'W' classes modified as escorts. Under construction or on order were 32 fleet destroyers and 20 escort types of the 'Hunt' class.

60 Submarines, mainly modern with nine building.

45 escort and patrol vessels with nine building, and the first 56 'Flower' class corvettes on order to add to the converted 'V' and 'W's' and 'Hunts'. However, there were few fast, long-endurance convoy escorts. The British had more submarines than the Germans had total ocean going surface ships.

[Albany Rifles]

Reference Iceland....the Germans would find almost a full division of British troops there by summer of 1940.

Germany was a continental power. Great Britain was a global power. All the UK had to do was weather the storm and eventually a) logistics from the Western Hemisphere would tip the balance and b) the US would come into the war. Once France fell the US was coming into the war. Once we were in it was SOL for Germany.

WW II was a war much about airpower....but it was airpower coupled with sea power which was a strategic weapon. The Germans had airpower as a tactical/operational weapon. The US was into airpower at the tactical/operational/strategic level. And to do that you have to project power. To that that you have have to move and sustain forces over long distances....the sea lines of communications.

The inabililty of the Kriegsmarine to close the Atlantic doomed Germany.

[Norseman]

For those of you who are interested, here is a link about U.S. Marines in the Defense of Iceland 1941-45.

HyperWar: Outpost in the North Atlantic: Marines in the Defense of Iceland

[SouthKorean]

All you have shown was how stupid Hitler was proven when in fact, the Sudetenland was obvious proof of his stupidity. He would have lost WWII well before he took it on.

And we have already have shown had France gone on the attack, Germany would never have done Barbarossa.

I recently pondered the consequences if Hitler really undertook Fall Grün. From what I consider, Czech border fortifications were considerable, and as most of Austro-Hungarian industry was based in Czechoslovakia, the country itself was one of the top ten industrialized countries in the world. The Wehrmacht was in no shape to undertake an invasion, and it would have certainly provoked a British/French, possibly even a Polish response. Just a thought.

[Mihais]

I recently pondered the consequences if Hitler really undertook Fall Grün. From what I consider, Czech border fortifications were considerable, and as most of Austro-Hungarian industry was based in Czechoslovakia, the country itself was one of the top ten industrialized countries in the world. The Wehrmacht was in no shape to undertake an invasion, and it would have certainly provoked a British/French, possibly even a Polish response. Just a thought.

The Czechs weren't alllowed even to be inside the room with the big 4.They could and should have fought regardless of Britain and France.But make no mistake,nobody was coming.Well,maybe the Hungarians,to give the Germans a hand.

Halder and Fritsch would have toppled Hitler instead.

[SouthKorean]

The Czechs weren't alllowed even to be inside the room with the big 4.They could and should have fought regardless of Britain and France.But make no mistake,nobody was coming.Well,maybe the Hungarians,to give the Germans a hand.

Halder and Fritsch would have toppled Hitler instead.

You're right, I completely forgot about the situation in the München Conference. I was also aware of Halder's and Fritsch's plans to topple Hitler, but I also question whether it would have been successful. By 1938, pretty much the entire Deutsch population was thoroughly propagandized.