Saudi Artillery Shopping Spree

[ArtyEngineer]

Looks like Saudi has decided to spend some money on its Artillery capabilities.

From teh DSCA Notification to Congress:

"The Government of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has requested a possible sale for 36 M777A2 Howitzers, 54 M119A2 Howitzers, 6 AN/TPQ-36(V) Fire Finder Radar Systems, 24 Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data Systems (AFATDS), 17,136 rounds M107 155mm High Explosive (HE) ammunition, 2,304 rounds M549 155mm Rocket Assisted Projectiles (RAPs), 60 M1165A1 High Mobility Multipurpose Vehicles (HMMWVs), 120 M1151A1 HMMWVs, 252 M1152A1 HMMWVs, Export Single Channel Ground And Airborne Radio Systems (SINCGARS), electronic support systems, 105mm ammunition, various wheeled/tracked support vehicles, spare and repair parts, technical manuals and publications, translation services, training, USG and contractor technical assistance, and other related elements of logistical and program support. The estimated cost is $886 million."


Link: http://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36...abia_10-74.pdf

No mention of Excalibur Projectiles though (this does not surprise me), I am surprised however that they are getting AFATDS.

Regards

Arty

[Albany Rifles]

My question is the equipment going to the Saudi Army or National Guard...

[kato]

500 rounds per gun? They're apparently not expecting to use them in anything but training...

(yes, i know - the Saudis already have towed 155mm guns and ammunition)

What precisely costs almost 900 million Dollar in that deal btw? Is AFATDS that overpriced? Or do they sell Hummers for a million a piece now?

[Albany Rifles]

Those version of HMMWVs are close to that....specially reinforced. And yes AFATDS is expensive. And I a
sure there are integration, spare parts and logistics support tied to the entire package

[ArtyEngineer]

My understanding is that this is for the National Guard Units of the Saudi Armed Forces, but I neeeed to confirm that.

Regarding the costs, lets just say that the actual "Harware costs" make up about 50% to 60% of the procurement cost stated. The remainder is for:

"spare and repair parts, technical manuals and publications, translation services, training, USG and contractor technical assistance, and other related elements of logistical and program support."

Regards

Arty

[Stitch]

Those version of HMMWVs are close to that....specially reinforced.

I come up with a price of $70,962.65 per M1151/M1152; that's well short of $1M each.

[S2]

I'd LOVE to watch a Saudi FA battalion's motor pool recovery after an LFX.

[USSWisconsin]

Wow quite a shopping cart. I think I'd spend that much money differently - perhaps it would be enough to retire in the Milwaukee room on USS Wisconsin BB64.

I'd guess there are some salespeople somewhere celebrating this deal.:mocan:

[Deltacamelately]

Gentlemen,

Just for education, in the US which Brigades use the M-777?

As far as I read, in the western militaries, the Units designated as an Infantry Brigade Combat Team and Airborne units use the M-119 to keep up ther light fighter image. As we saw, the M-777s were used quite universally in Afghanistan.

Two more questions -
Which Brigades use the Paladin? Also, is the M-198m phased out or still in active service?

[Albany Rifles]

I come up with a price of $70,962.65 per M1151/M1152; that's well short of $1M each.

Not when you throw the AFATDS shelter on it!!!

And Arty, not to be too picky, but the Saudi National Guard is outside of the Saudi Armed Forces. The respond directly to the King through one of the senior crown princes. The are for regime survival more than anything but can be used in conflict with other countries (see Gulf War). That was why I asked...not seeing a corresponding build up on the Saudi Army side.

[Albany Rifles]

M-777 are used in USMC service and in the Fires Brigades in the US force structure as well as the DS battalion in the Stryker brigades. These are outside of the IBCT structure. But who knows for the future.

The Paladins M109A6s are used in the fires battalion in the HBCTs and also in the Fires Brigades.

And I believe the BOIP is to displace the M198s with M777s. I know we have already sold some M198s to the Iraqis.

[ArtyEngineer]

Albany

The US Gov has just ardered another 70 M777's to start putting them into the IBCT's to provide an Organic 155mm capability.

Link: Howitzer order saves 380 jobs at BAE plant - Telegraph

They are not replacing any of the M119A2 but are in addition to them. I do not know how the battalion structure will evolve to absorb them. The sensible thing I feel is to add an additional battery rather then putting a platoon of M777 into teh existing batteries.

But we shall see what actually happens.

Regards

Arty

[S2]

I'm thinking eight gun M777 battery packages. Nine all told that can be packaged into three battalions if need be by rounding out an DS arty HHB/Svc btry (to include a battalion FDC and FIST component). Increase the MTOE/TDA personnel authorizations for M119 batteries so that an adequate in-house augmentation exists and then periodically rotate those units through the newly-established equipment sets for FTX/LFXs to maintain proficiency.

[Albany Rifles]

The additional battery may come within the force structure if/when we reduce the numbers of BCTs...thsi will allow us to add a battery per battalion.

I recall back in the murky past the light forces had a 155 battery GS at the DIVARTY level...am I mistaken?

I am intrigues if the FA can do like the infantry did with the 120mm mortar/81 mm mortar. A mortar platoon would have both but use whichever METT-T called for. It was called the arms room concept. Not sure if it still used.

All that said, I think its a great idea...a great weapon system.

[Deltacamelately]

[Envy]Big Time[/Envy]