Neutrinos faster than the speed of light????!!!!

[citanon]

"Just as you can hear the firing of a supersonic bullet after the bullet has impacted, you can see the launch of a superluminal particle after the particle has arrived."

Problem is, that enlarged on a Universe wide scale, we have the following: Take a pool game, cause and effect scenario; the balls can move before I even pick up the cue... Maybe they transfer briefly to another dimension? Do the balls 'know' what I will do? In this case I remain stable and act as observer - as does my oppenent in the pool game by realtivity theory... The 'other dimension' that moves the balls prior to my hitting one is thus the 'cause' of their movement and my actions are either random or in some way causaly linked to the 'other dimension'.

No matter what, if a 'short cut' does prove possible then interstellar travel and, in my opinion, time travel (futurewards) then theoriticly are possible. Interesting times if this is proved correct.

That's not true Snapper. If you were hitting a pool ball made out of neutrinos, you could pick up the que, hit the ball to the other side of the table, where, someone at the corner will observe that the ball seemed to have moved to his side before you used the que. However, both events happened in the past. It would just look weird from one observer's perspective.

[citanon]

According to the light/time c you would be incorrect...

That's why this experiment is interesting. If it's proven true then we'll have to toss out the above axiom as non-sense.

[citanon]

This result and all of this discussion is making me wonder about our place in the universe. Afterall, visible matter constitutes only 30% of the matter out there. The rest is dark matter whose influence can be seen but whose identity is mysterious.

Wouldn't it be funny if most of the universe is teaming with intelligent life made out of dark matter moving at way faster than C, and we can't see them because they don't interact strongly with the "normal" matter that make up us?

Maybe there's a huge number of aliens zooming around out there, looking at us as those barely evolved idiots who are still puttering around in the slow lane!

[dave lukins]

Maybe there's a huge number of aliens zooming around out there, looking at us as those barely evolved idiots who are still puttering around in the slow lane!

Is it possible that some of them have reached the WAB?

[Doktor]

Is it possible that some of them have reached the WAB?

Don't look at gunnut. Seriously don't!

[snapper]

That's not true Snapper. If you were hitting a pool ball made out of neutrinos, you could pick up the que, hit the ball to the other side of the table, where, someone at the corner will observe that the ball seemed to have moved to his side before you used the que. However, both events happened in the past. It would just look weird from one observer's perspective.

In a game of pool this would no doubt be so as the speed of the neutrino over a 732km distance appears to be 0.00000006 seconds faster than c (see full results here: [1109.4897] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the OPERA detector in the CNGS beam). Over a distance of a 3-4ft the result would be barely detectable. But over a sufficiently long space time, effect would still preceed cause.

One other explanation may be 'tachyon' theory. The tachyon is a is a theoretical particle (ie. nobodys found one) that moves faster than c. Interesting to note that in 1985 A. Chodos wrote a paper examining the possible 'tachyon-like' properties of the neutrino (see Tachyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for tachyon overview).

[Laser]

Seems to me, the question we should be asking is, just where are these neutrinos going in such a hurry?

There must be a party somewhere.:)

[tankie]

There must be a party somewhere.:)

C,mon yella , get yer arse in gear , paaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrtyyyyyyyyyyy woo hoo :mocan:

[USSWisconsin]

In a game of pool this would no doubt be so as the speed of the neutrino over a 732km distance appears to be 0.00000006 seconds faster than c (see full results here: [1109.4897] Measurement of the neutrino velocity with the OPERA detector in the CNGS beam). Over a distance of a 3-4ft the result would be barely detectable. But over a sufficiently long space time, effect would still precede cause.

One other explanation may be 'tachyon' theory. The tachyon is a is a theoretical particle (ie. nobody's found one) that moves faster than c. Interesting to note that in 1985 A. Chodos wrote a paper examining the possible 'tachyon-like' properties of the neutrino (see Tachyon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for tachyon overview).

I took a look at this Wiki and found this - kind of musical - I don't have a strong opinion about it's accuracy - but I like the way it sounds - seems like an inspiration for a song - working on that now...

Tachyonic fields indeed arise in many versions of string theory. In general, string theory states that what we see as "particles" —electrons, photons, gravitons and so forth—are actually different vibrational states of the same underlying string. The mass of the particle can be deduced from the vibrations which the string exhibits; roughly speaking, the mass depends upon the "note" which the string sounds.

So those squeeky high notes at the base of the neck on my uke are superluminal manifestations of the mass of the sounds...

[Parihaka]

I took a look at this Wiki and found this - kind of musical - I don't have a strong opinion about it's accuracy - but I like the way it sounds - seems like an inspiration for a song - working on that now...

Tachyonic fields indeed arise in many versions of string theory. In general, string theory states that what we see as "particles" —electrons, photons, gravitons and so forth—are actually different vibrational states of the same underlying string. The mass of the particle can be deduced from the vibrations which the string exhibits; roughly speaking, the mass depends upon the "note" which the string sounds.

So those squeeky high notes at the base of the neck on my uke are superluminal manifestations of the mass of the sounds...

I make no pretence of understanding physics theories but I love that description

[bigross86]

Pythagoras believed the entire universe was based on music theory. IIRC he came up with a model for planetary movement based on music

[snapper]

I took a look at this Wiki and found this - kind of musical - I don't have a strong opinion about it's accuracy - but I like the way it sounds - seems like an inspiration for a song - working on that now...



So those squeeky high notes at the base of the neck on my uke are superluminal manifestations of the mass of the sounds...

Your sum the matter up very eloquently Sir. IF these results prove correct, which seems likely given the other data of 'non proved' experiments that have given the same result (these results were not 'proved' to acceptable standards and didn't re-run 55,000 times as OPERA tests did), we will be forced to recognise 'another dimension' where X can become Y particles and contradict the constant of our current dimesional space/time rules. This would also explain why the neutrinos change from the start to the end of their journey, assuming that the 'other dimension' through which they have taken a 'short cut' has some effect on our Universe and is therefore 'provable', which it seems to be.

The UFO people are going to love this.

As for music theory and Pythagoras; he was entirely correct! The frequency of a 'prime number' is directly related to the true note frequency. Trouble is that we basicly don't hear much of the noise of the Universe and so we struggle through Maths to find encryption keys etc... based on the prime numbers.

[bigross86]

Not arguing the point about music theory being number based. A string plucked at exactly halfway or 3/5th between both ends will sound better than a string plucked at 13/27th. His theory that the entire universe is based on music, however, is slightly flawed, methinks...

Musica universalis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Sparking Neuron]

There are many things that travel faster then the speed of light, we knew that already. But not in the way you see in movies.

like:
- "The Nothingness"
The big bang expanded with speed higher then light. Wherever the light went, it found empty space and vacuum waiting for it. Still does. Which nothingness expands faster then light since it has no material is breaking the "light barrier" in this case.
So next time when so say "nothing can go faster then light" see it in a different way.

- "Quantaum Entaglement"
Means if i have 2 electrons in very close proximity to each other and vibrating in unison. According to quantum theory now if i separate them even in light years of distance they'll still maintain an invisible link with each other and if u jiggle one of them the other one will sense it faster then the speed of light. Einstien thought it was ridiculous and thats why he rejected the quantum theory. He was wrong. EPR Experiments have proved it every single time.
But not so fast!! Einstein always gets "the last laugh".. :)
bcz the info that breaks this light barrier is not of much use.
for xample : if u know ur friend is wearing two socks; one white and the other black and i tell u he is wearing black sock in his right foot then faster then the speed of light u'll know that he is wearing white sock in his left foot. but u can't send useful information this way.

___________


If those experiments are correct then we've got a lot of new research and a lot of new Noble Prizes coming our way. It'd also mean that loads of theories and experiments will be needed to recaliberated and reviewed. Including big bang, black holes, age of universe, star distances, nuclear physics and every single text book.

But it can also be wrong. Relativity theory has faced many challenges in its history. Once for example when a tiny effect of gravity over light was being measured. Physicists found out that speed of lights was varyin during day and night. It created some hype which got dealt with when someone pointed out that the temperature difference between day & night was effecting the apparatus :)

So lets see what happens. I wish they are right...but whatever the outcome victory will be of science.

[highsea]

I'm sceptical about neutrinos exceeding C, but not sceptical about neutrino mass. Even a tiny neutrino mass could go a long way towards the missing mass problem, and we have experimental evidence of neutrinos slowing as they pass through the earth. If this is correct, it means neutrinos can see time.

The reason I don't like neutrinos exceeding C is because C is a spacetime geodesic. General Relativity is a geometrical description of gravity in a 4 dimensional spacetime. So exceeding C means exiting and re-entering normal spacetime. Within an experiment that exists entirely within that same spacetime?

It strikes me as illogical, and neutrino mass would (seems to me) make it not possible.

Neutrino mass? Probably.
Neutrinos exceeding C? Not likely.
String theories? Not needed if you are willing to accept GR's geometrical description of gravity.