Will UN grant statehood to Palestine: showdown nearing

[astralis]

BR,

There's no reason in the world Israel is the catalyst behind that clusterfuck, and trying to pin the blame for it on Israel shows where this man stands

Kristof didn't say that Israel was the catalyst, but that Israel -did- play a part in screwing up the Israeli-Turkish relationship. which is true-- for instance, recall the stupid Ayalon affair.

i agree that israel does not deserve the lion's share of the blame for the deterioration. however, having lieberman for a Foreign Minister is not exactly helping out israel's strategic relationships.

[bigross86]

That's beside the point. That idiot is there because of Knesset internal politics. And yes, the Ayalon affair was utter stupidity. But let's not forget who started it at first, who has continued it and who has still gone to great efforts to make sure the difference and verbal clashing between the two nations continues. That's right, Turkey

[Doktor]

BR,



Kristof didn't say that Israel was the catalyst, but that Israel -did- play a part in screwing up the Israeli-Turkish relationship. which is true-- for instance, recall the stupid Ayalon affair.

i agree that israel does not deserve the lion's share of the blame for the deterioration. however, having lieberman for a Foreign Minister is not exactly helping out israel's strategic relationships.

In all fairness the Turkish PM and FM are not better

[Double Edge]

The way I see it, it's a pure desperation.

Not sure if its desperation, how about seeing it as just the next move in series of moves in the ongoing PR war campaign against Israel.

What other moves he really has? Talks with Israel? With all the preconditions it is impossible for a Palestinian leader to sit and talk. If both sides sit and start from scratches, then something could come out from all that.

Right, but its impossible because the present prize is not attractive enough, Pals have the losing hand and to sit down and settle now would be to forever foreclose on the status quo. Better to try and improve the chances by manipulating world opinion against Israel.
Plan would be

1. do something
2. hope Israel screws up
3. world says bad Israel
4.
5. PROFIT

Rinse & repeat till Palestinian position becomes stronger.

So all Israel has to do is play the cards right and minimise the negative as much as possible. How long this can go on for is down to how imaginative the Palestinians are.

The other side to this, if you're Israeli then the status quo is the best situation and the objective would be to keep it going on for as long as feasible. This is how i interpret Netanyahu's demand for preconditions, he knows the Pals will never accept it so his goal is to preserve the status quo. He does not want to be remembered as 'that man that gave away Israel'.

As the years go by those that were alive in 48, pass on and then the ones from 67 pass on too. Now how willing will the next Palestinian generation after Abbas or even the one after be at compromise.

The main question to answer is which party does the passage of time serve better ? Palestine or Israel

[Doktor]

DE,

if the Pals don't do anything what's the incentive for Israel to do something?

BTW, in Bosnia the everworried nations got upset said it is enough and packed not two, but three leaders and told them, no way back home until you all aagree onto something (that we prepared to save us all time).

Why is that not doable now?

I am sure the current powers will grant Israel security and the Pals will get more that way then via direct talks.

Another thing, 50 years of status quo more or less, that's like 3 generations, add another 40-50 years and it will be exodus for the settlers. You really think our kids will allow that?

[Double Edge]

if the Pals don't do anything what's the incentive for Israel to do something?

They are behaving like that because they believe time is on their side ?

BTW, in Bosnia the everworried nations got upset said it is enough and packed not two, but three leaders and told them, no way back home until you all aagree onto something (that we prepared to save us all time).

Why is that not doable now?

Which parties did the US support in that scenario ?

If US supports the weaker party then there will be movement.

I am sure the current powers will grant Israel security and the Pals will get more that way then via direct talks.

Another thing, 50 years of status quo more or less, that's like 3 generations, add another 40-50 years and it will be exodus for the settlers. You really think our kids will allow that?

So why should the Pals settle for anything now then ?

Time. they tried everything, terroism, rockets, PR, nothing works. Will time strengthen their position.

I'm not so sure if settlers will have to move out, Israel have built a wall and they will keep their side protected. Israel will always be secure.

If the Pals multiply then they will have to grow their economy otherwise their living stds will get worse. If they stick with terorrism then their situation will be grim. So population also has negative effects for them and should act as a limiter.