Which choice is better for becoming a good sniper- USMC or Army

[illusha]

Hi, I am thinking about joining the military and I think I want to be a sniper. I am wondering which branch of the military is the best at it, USMC or Army?

[EricTheRed]

do you really want to be a sniper? I is a very dangerous and VERY hard to get into. And I may be biased but I say Army.

[Ziska]

Why do you want to be a sniper? I'll bet you china to a gumleaf you don't know what it's like.

(Not saying I do, but I know enough to know what I don't know, if you know what I'm saying :))

[Bill]

Snipers are handpicked by their unit commanders based on their actual performance and their natural aptitude for the position.

It's not something you can just volunteer for.

That being said, USMC snipers undergo far more training than 'regular' Army snipers(which i was), but enlisting in the USMC doesn't even guarantee you an Infantry MOS to begin with(which is required for snipers).

The Army has two sniper schools in the US(and used to have on in Korea, but i've no idea if it's still operating). One at Fort Benning, the USASS, for 'regular' infantry forces(which i attended), and one at Fort Bragg which is for Specops forces only- and much more comprehensive and demanding.

The requirements for qualification for USASS training in the US Army are as follows:

* Must be 11B, 11M, 19D, or CMF 18.

* PFC-SFC (Grade waiverable).

* Active duty, or Reserve, or National Guard, must have a good performance record with no history of alcohol, or drug abuse, must be a volunteer and be recommended by his commander.

* Must be in excellent physical condition (70 percent or better in each event of the APFT).

* Must have a corrected vision of 20/20.

* Must not have a record of disciplinary action.

* Must be knowledgeable of skill level 2 tasks.

* Must have a GT score of 100.

* Must have qualified expert with the M16A2/M4 Carbine rifle within six months of course attendance.

* Normal color vision must be annotated on SF 88, tested within six months of course attendance.

* Must have a minimum of one (1) year retainability.

* Must pass psychological evaluation (MMPI/CPI) conducted under the direction of a qualified psychologist.

Upon reporting to the U.S. Army Sniper School, Students are required to have the following:

1. Gillie suit complete.

2. 5 copies of all orders and amendments (NG/USAR 10 Copies)

3. Valid ID card and sets of metal ID tags with chain

4. Unit issued meal card (non-wavrable)

5. DA FORM 2-1 6. DA FORM 2A

7. Medical Records

8. Commanders Recommendation

9. DA form 3822-A

10. SF88 11. Rifle Marksmanship score card

SPECIAL INFO: The following items are also required for the USASS:

* Large Alice pack w/frame, LBE/LBV complete with ammo pouch (2),
* 1 Qt. canteen (2)
* first aid pouches, poncho w/poncho liner, water proof bag, (2)
* cammo stick, calculator, padlocks, (2) (key or Commbo)
* Clipboard.
* Five (5) sets of BDUs, T-shirt, and black/green socks (1 set will be rendered unserviceable after training), 2 BDU caps, 2 pair of boots (combat or jungle, one pair will be rendered unserviceable after training)
* 2 Gray PT uniforms complete with running shoes, seasonal military attire (gortex, polypros, Etc), undergarments, toiletries, etc, as needed
* 2 ear-plugs w/carrier
* 1 lensetic compass
* 2 protractors, pens and mechanical pencils and
* 1 Boonie Hat and a Ghillie suit.

All students report to the USASS, Building 4882, Harmony church no later than 0800 hours on the reporting day (day prior to the class start date). Students arriving prior to 0800 hours on the class reporting date will report to the SDNCO, 2nd Battalion, 29th Infantry Regiment in building 74 on Main post, Fort Benning.

And some additional information from USA FM-23-10, Chapter1:

CHAPTER 1
INTRODUCTION

The sniper has special abilities, training and equipment. His job is to deliver discriminatory highly accurate rifle fire against enemy targets, which cannot be engaged successfully by the rifleman because of range, size, location, fleeting nature, or visibility. Sniping requires the development of basic infantry skills to a high degree of perfection. A sniper's training incorporates a wide variety of subjects designed to increase his value as a force multiplier and to ensure his survival on the battlefield. The art of sniping requires learning and repetitiously practicing these skills until mastered. A sniper must be highly trained in long-range rifle marksmanship and field craft skills to ensure maximum effective engagements with minimum risk.

1-1. MISSION

The primary mission of a sniper in combat is to support combat operations by delivering precise long-range fire on selected targets. By this, the sniper creates casualties among enemy troops, slows enemy movement, frightens enemy soldiers, lowers morale, and adds confusion to their operations. The secondary mission of the sniper is collecting and reporting battlefield information.

a. A well-trained sniper, combined with the inherent accuracy of his rifle and ammunition, is a versatile supporting arm available to an infantry commander. The importance of the sniper cannot be measured simply by the number of casualties he inflicts upon the enemy. Realization of the sniper's presence instills fear in enemy troop elements and influences their decisions and actions. A sniper enhances a unit's firepower and augments the varied means for destruction and harassment of the enemy. Whether a sniper is organic or attached, he will provide that unit with extra supporting fire. The sniper's role is unique in that it is the sole means by which a unit can engage point targets at distances beyond the effective range of the M16 rifle. This role becomes more significant when the target is entrenched or positioned among civilians, or during riot control missions. The fires of automatic weapons in such operations can result in the wounding or killing of noncombatants.

b. Snipers are employed in all levels of conflict. This includes conventional offensive and defensive combat in which precision fire is delivered at long ranges. It also includes combat patrols, ambushes, countersniper operations, forward observation elements, military operations in urbanized terrain, and retrograde operations in which snipers are part of forces left in contact or as stay-behind forces.
1-2. ORGANIZATION

In light infantry divisions, the sniper element is composed of six battalion personnel organized into three 2-man teams. The commander designates missions and priorities of targets for the team and may attach or place the team under the operational control of a company or platoon. They may perform dual missions, depending on the need. In the mechanized infantry battalions, the sniper element is composed of two riflemen (one team) located in a rifle squad. In some specialized units, snipers may be organized according to the needs of the tactical situation.

a. Sniper teams should be centrally controlled by the commander or the sniper employment officer. The SEO is responsible for the command and control of snipers assigned to the unit. In light infantry units, the SEO will be the reconnaissance platoon leader or the platoon sergeant. In heavy or mechanized units, the SEO may be the company commander or the executive officer. The duties and responsibilities of the SEO are as follows:

(1) To advise the unit commander on the employment of snipers.

(2) To issue orders to the team leader.

(3) To assign missions and types of employment.

(4) To coordinate between the sniper team and unit commander.

(5) To brief the unit commander and team leaders.

(6) To debrief the unit commander and team leaders.

(7) To train the teams.

b. Snipers work and train in 2-man teams. One sniper's primary duty is that of the sniper and team leader while the other sniper serves as the observer. The sniper team leader is responsible for the day-to-day activities of the sniper team. His responsibilities are as follows:

(1) To assume the responsibilities of the SEO that pertain to the team in the SEO's absence.

(2) To train the team.

(3) To issue necessary orders to the team.

(4) To prepare for missions.

(5) To control the team during missions.

c. The sniper's weapon is the sniper weapon system. The observer has the M16 rifle and an M203, which gives the team greater suppressive fire and protection. Night capability is enhanced by using night observation devices.
1-3. PERSONNEL SELECTION CRITERIA

Candidates for sniper training require careful screening. Commanders must screen the individual's records for potential aptitude as a sniper. The rigorous training program and the increased personal risk in combat require high motivation and the ability to learn a variety of skills. Aspiring snipers must have an excellent personal record.

a. The basic guidelines used to screen sniper candidates are as follows:

(1) Marksmanship. The sniper trainee must be an expert marksman. Repeated annual qualification as expert is necessary. Successful participation in the annual competition-in-arms program and an extensive hunting background also indicate good sniper potential.

(2) Physical condition. The sniper, often employed in extended operations with little sleep, food, or water, must be in outstanding physical condition. Good health means better reflexes, better muscular control, and greater stamina. The self-confidence and control that come from athletics, especially team sports, are definite assets to a sniper trainee.

(3) Vision. Eyesight is the sniper's prime tool. Therefore, a sniper must have 20/20 vision or vision correctable to 20/20. However, wearing glasses could become a liability if glasses are lost or damaged. Color blindness is also considered a liability to the sniper, due to his inability to detect concealed targets that blend in with the natural surroundings.

(4) Smoking. The sniper should not be a smoker or use smokeless tobacco. Smoke or an unsuppressed smoker's cough can betray the sniper's position. Even though a sniper may not smoke or use smokeless tobacco on a mission, his refrainment may cause nervousness and irritation, which lowers his efficiency.

(5) Mental condition. When commanders screen sniper candidates, they should look for traits that indicate the candidate has the right qualities to be a sniper. The commander must determine if the candidate will pull the trigger at the right time and place. Some traits to look for are reliability, initiative, loyalty, discipline, and emotional stability. A psychological evaluation of the candidate can aid the commander in the selection process.

(6) Intelligence. A sniper's duties require a wide variety of skills. He must learn the following:

o Ballistics.
o Ammunition types and capabilities.
o Adjustment of optical devices.
o Radio operation and procedures.
o Observation and adjustment of mortar and artillery fire.
o Land navigation skills.
o Military intelligence collecting and reporting.
o Identification of threat uniforms and equipment.

b. In sniper team operations involving prolonged independent employment, the sniper must be self-reliant, display good judgment and common sense. This requires two other important qualifications: emotional balance and field craft.

(1) Emotional balance. The sniper must be able to calmly and deliberately kill targets that may not pose an immediate threat to him. It is much easier to kill in self-defense or in the defense of others than it is to kill without apparent provocation. The sniper must not be susceptible to emotions such as anxiety or remorse. Candidates whose motivation toward sniper training rests mainly in the desire for prestige may not be capable of the cold rationality that the sniper's job requires.

(2) Field craft. The sniper must be familiar with and comfortable in a field environment. An extensive background in the outdoors and knowledge of natural occurrences in the outdoors will assist the sniper in many of his tasks. Individuals with such a background will often have great potential as a sniper.

c. Commander involvement in personnel selection is critical. To ensure his candidate's successful completion of sniper training and contribution of his talents to his unit's mission, the commander ensures that the sniper candidate meets the following prerequisites before attending the US Army Sniper School:

* Male.
* PFC to SFC (waiverable for MSG and above).
* Active duty or ARNG and USAR.
* Good performance record.
* No history of alcohol or drug abuse.
* A volunteer (with commander recommendation).
* Vision of 20/20 or correctable to 20/20.
* No record of disciplinary action.
* Expert marksman with M16A1 or M16A2 rifle.
* Minimum of one-year retrainability.
* Career management field 11.
* Pass APFT (70 percent, each event).

1-4. SNIPER AND OBSERVER RESPONSIBILITIES

Each member of the sniper team has specific responsibilities. Only through repeated practice can the team begin to function properly. Responsibilities of team members areas follows:

a. The sniper--

* Builds a steady, comfortable position.
* Locates and identifies the designated target.
* Estimates the range to the target.
* Dials in the proper elevation and windage to engage the target.
* Notifies the observer of readiness to fire.
* Takes aim at the designated target.
* Controls breathing at natural respiratory pause.
* Executes proper trigger control.
* Follows through.
* Makes an accurate and timely shot call.
* Prepares to fire subsequent shots, if necessary.

b. The observer--

* Properly positions himself.
* Selects an appropriate target.
* Assists in range estimation.
* Calculates the effect of existing weather conditions on ballistics.
* Reports sight adjustment data to the sniper.
* Uses the M49 observation telescope for shot observation.
* Critiques performance.

1-5. TEAM FIRING TECHNIQUES

A sniper team must be able to move and survive in a combat environment. The sniper team's mission is to deliver precision fire. This calls for a coordinated team effort. Together, the sniper and observer--

* Determine the effects of weather on ballistics.
* Calculate the range to the target.
* Make necessary sight changes.
* Observe bullet impact.
* Critique performance before any subsequent shots.

If you have any more questions, just let me know.

[EricTheRed]

You could always drive a tank

[Shek]

The Army has more sniper billets, especially with the creation of the SBCT (snipers at the company level and squad designated marksmen were a sniper slot). I'm sure that OIF and OEF has caused the unit of action tables of organization to be adjusted to include more snipers and SDMs (units are employing them in Iraq, although it has been through OJT). However, in the Army, your sniper skill identifier is an additional skill and your primary occupational specialty will be 11B, or infantryman. What that means is that you'll bounce back and forth between being a sniper and a regular infantryman (assuming you get selected by your First Sergeant - the commander signs the paperwork - your 1SG is the one who handles personnel moves within the company, or if you get selected for the battalion sniper section, it will be your battalion command sergeant major, based on the advice of the sniper section sergeant). The highest sniper position is E6, so once you make E7, you'll be a platoon sergeant (although the most experienced and trusted E7 in the battalion gets the job as the reconnaissance platoon sergeant). I hope this helps - also, your natural ability to shoot is a secondary concern. Your NCOs will teach you how to shoot. Your fitness, discipline, attitude, and intelligence are the skills/factors that will get you selected to a sniper slot. Good luck.

[Bill]

The best things you can do to get selected for sniper school are as follows:

Ace the APFT(I scored a 292, which was especially useful for me because my CO was one of those fitness nuts. By scoring a 292 i punched my own ticket at my unit. I beat the COs score by a full 12 pts, and had the 4th highest score in the Bn)

Qualify perfect on the M-16 on consecutive qualifications(i shot a 38 in basic, and followed it up with two straight 40s. My unit qualed not 2 months after i got there, and i shot the first perfect with an M-16A1- i was one of only two guys in my whole Bn to do so).

Hunt. If you don't hunt already, start now. That's something that is definitely looked at. Once you get to your permanent party unit, find out who the hunters are and buddy up with them. When they hunt- you hunt.
I greatly improved my standing in my Sq Leaders eyes when we went coyote hunting and i took down a 'yote at 500 meters off-hand with a Mini-14 ranch rifle after he missed it twice with a .270 from prone(and i will admit, to this day i consider it to have been a lucky shot, lol). ;)

Target practice as much as possible before you join, and spend a lot of off-duty time at the off-duty Base range after yer in(if your base has one, i don't know if all of them do). If you're an accomplished shooter, it would certainly be helpful to try out for the base rifle team as well.

Volunteer for range details whenever possible. Not only does that give the appearance of being a go-getter, it also allows you to pick the brain of the range cadre for shooting tips, and often you'll get a chance to fire off quite a few rounds yourself at the end of the day.

Quit drinking. Seriously, even one Art15 will disqualify you from attending USASS, and drinking is the leading cause of Art15s IME. Once you graduate USASS, you can get a few summaries to make up for lost time. ;)

If you smoke, quit. Not only will it be extremely beneficial to you for the rest of your life(and make soldiering MUCH easier), it is highly frowned upon when being considered for a slot at USASS. I smoked about 3-5 cigarettes a day when i was in, and the Army was definitely not as anti-smoking back then. Nowadays, if you smoke at all, you probably won't even be considered.

Latch on to your SL, and try to get him to teach you as much as possible. DO NOT kiss ass though. I hated that, and so do all NCOs that i've ever met. Just be interested and dedicated to your trade, without being a suck up. You MUST have an excellent command of all Lvl 2 infantry skills if you want to be seriously considered for USASS, and you can't have a track record of being a miscreant or mediocre troop.

Go out for your EIB badge when the tests are held at your unit(annually IIRC). Even if you don't earn it(very few do), you'll learn a lot about land nav(which is EXTREMELY important when being considered for USASS), and a myriad of other advanced infantry skills. If you DO manage to earn it, more schools will open up for you than you can shake a stick at.

As for my personal experience, i had never even thought about being a sniper. After i scored my 292 and got a Cert of Achievement from the Bde commander, i went right into my CO with my PSG, and asked for an Airborne slot. He informed me that my unit hadn't had an airborne slot in over a year...but that he'd see what he could do.
The next day after formation, he pulled me aside and offered me a slot at USASS...if i wanted it....or he said the next airborne slot the unit got was mine, but that there were no guarantees we'd get one anytime soon.

I jumped at the chance to go to USASS, as i'd just got done reading "Marine Sniper:93 Confirmed Kills", and i figured one in the hand is better than two in the bush.
My dream since i was 15 and read the book "Charlie Mike" had been to be an Airborne Ranger, but i chased the 'gold'- the $5k dollar cash bonus- when i enlisted, instead of getting a guaranteed airborne slot.

Sniping requires a certain kind of personality. If you are prone to fidgeting, or get bored easily, you'll never hack it as a sniper. My personality to me at least, is what i'd consider quite borderline for what they look for. I'm actually kind of hyper, so it was always a bit of a struggle for me in the field to maintain the kind of discipline needed to sit the F still and keep focused.
Sniping can be EXTREMELY boring and uncomfortable in practice, it is absolutely NOTHING like the movies. In fact, Sniping is very similar to watching paint dry 99% of the time. I'm not kidding.

Laying prone in one position for 10 hours and staying focused is simply beyond the mental and physical capacity of the vast majority of soldiers. If you get bit by a skeeter, you can't go smacking at it, you have to oh so slowly move your hand and squish it in place. Then, once bitten, you can't be scratching at it at all. The human eye keys on movement, so movement is EXACTLY what a sniper team looks to avoid at ALL COSTS once you're in your hide. Even when your team is moving, all movements must be very slow, and cover very short distances, with long periods of motionless listening and visual scanning of your surroundings at irregular intervals. Sniper teams are very small(only two men), so it is of extreme importance that you not ever, ever, ever betray your position via excessive movement or poor noise discipline.

When i was in USASS had about a 30% wash-out rate, so if you do manage to get selected, make sure your ducks are in a row, and your head is in the right place. The land nav portions of USASS especially are very demanding, and odds are, you won't get a second chance if you wash out the first time.

BTW: US Army snipers earn the additional MOS Designator B4.

Edit to add: It certainly does not hurt to have excellent eyesight. I had 20/15 when i first joined back in 87.(A freaky little sidenote is that when i went to MEPs in 2001 after the 911 attacks, i actually scored 20/10 on the vision test. The Navy EM that administered the test made me re-read the chart three times. He told me he'd never once seen anyone read the next to bottom line on the chart without a single mistake in his year and a half at MEPS until i did it.)

[Shek]

Good advice from Snipe. Alcohol is involved in the majority of all field grade Article 15s and anything that puts you in front of the man will kill your chances to get a sniper slot - that speaks to your discipline, and it doesn't make sense to invest time and money into someone that's going to rack up Art 15s and get chaptered out of the Army. However, if you are of age and know that you don't become an idiot while drinking, then drinking responsibly is not an issue. I forgot to mention land navigation - that's a key skill that will be tested during your sniper assessment.

Shooting isn't as critical for getting selected since there are more slots available, although learning to shoot well before won't hurt (this is based off conversations with my battalion's sniper section leaders - I was the S-4 for 18 months and their office was right next to mine - and with my sniper team leader in my company; none of them were that concerned if you didn't qualify expert). If you can barely qualify then you won't get selected, but if you are in the upper 25-50%, you're in the running to get selected. You can learn to shoot with the additional range time you'll get as a sniper, but teaching someone to understand navigation and terrain or to increase their fitness requires much more of an investment of time (you can't get in great shape in 2 weeks, but 2 weeks straight on the range will dramatically improve your shooting skills). Plus, the last thing that the sniper team leaders will want to do is unteach bad habits. However, if you invest your own time to learning shooting fundamentals and shoot on your own time, you will be rewarded with better qualification scores and more promotion points when it comes time for your E-5 and E-6 boards.

[Bill]

When i was in expert qual was required on the M-16, and the info i posted above seems to indicate that's still the case, however, i'll obviously trust the word of an 'active'(lol) Officer in the US Army infantry over documents that may be out of date.

I will say this though...shooting expert will definitely help your cause. Not to worry though, qualing expert with the M-16A2/A4 is a very easy task.

The land nav and stalking is muuuuuuch harder. Almost everyone that washes out washes out over land nav or stalking. I think it's probably safe to say that land nav is the #1 cause for failing the EIB test too. Does your experience match that observation Shek?

[Shek]

When i was in expert qual was required on the M-16, and the info i posted above seems to indicate that's still the case, however, i'll obviously trust the word of an 'active'(lol) Officer in the US Army infantry over documents that may be out of date.

I will say this though...shooting expert will definitely help your cause. Not to worry though, qualing expert with the M-16A2/A4 is a very easy task.

The land nav and stalking is muuuuuuch harder. Almost everyone that washes out washes out over land nav or stalking. I think it's probably safe to say that land nav is the #1 cause for failing the EIB test too. Does your experience match that observation Shek?

Snipe, I'm sure that qualifying expert prior to attendance at USASS is still a requirement and I wasn't trying to dispute that (sorry for giving that impression). In my unit, we ran sniper assessments at both the battalion and company levels about 1-2 times a year. Once a candidate was selected, he would either become part of a sniper team if there was an opening or do some additional training with the sniper team. It was during this time that they would learn the skills necessary to pass USASS as well as train to the standards needed to qualify for the school (to include shooting expert, which I wouldn't doubt still remains a gate for entry). So, my point was that you can learn to shoot much quicker than you can pick up land nav, fitness, etc., and that's where I'd focus my off duty time. Your unit will make sure that you meet entrance requirements from there. However, once you have those other skills mastered, shooting is always a great skill to train and it never hurts to be ready in case a school slot drops into your lap like Snipe - also, if you want to go to Airborne or Ranger School, get your Airborne and/or Ranger physical done (you're PSG or 1SG will have to sign off on your request to get it done so you don't waste time or $ getting unneeded physicals done) - that is the biggest obstacle to filling slots that need filling ASAP.

Land nav is one of the few tasks that seems to always trip people up. Call for fire and hand grenades are the other one big ones. The M16 used to be a big one too when it was done at the end of the 12 mile road march and was considered one event (if you failed the M16 tasks, you had to repeat the 12 mile road march the next day). I had it "easy" and the M16 was a separate task that wasn't done on the 12 mile road march day. I made it through on during my first EIB, but I wasn't "true blue." I made a stupid mistake on the first aid site and even though I immediately corrected myself, it didn't matter. The site NCOIC told me I should protest with the CSM and that I would probably get the no-go overturned, but I didn't think that was right because I didn't meet the standard and didn't want have any perceived unfair treatment. Of course, I had to laugh at one of the new LTs that had prior service (he had served in ODS and had a CIB) and skipped out on most of the practice weak and talked trash about having a CIB. Well, he gone on the first because of his lack of practice and I'm sure that the site NCOs were gunning for him because of his lack of humility. In any case, my thoughts on EIB is that every task is very simple, but throw 25 or so tasks together in 2-3 days of testing and it's easy to trip up. It's not easy being an infantryman.

[Shek]

I will say this though...shooting expert will definitely help your cause. Not to worry though, qualing expert with the M-16A2/A4 is a very easy task.

Ain't that the truth! Even I qualified expert! Seriously, the more I shot, the better I got. I around 27 or 28 as a cadet, but once I started shooting more as a PL, I would shoot around 34 or so on the practice run and then hit 35-38 during record qual. I didn't shoot much again until I took command, but once again, I always shot in the low 30s (I would only shoot the qual table once - no practice - and leave rounds for my guys that needed to shoot better to get more promotion points).

[illusha]

I have a couple of questions
1. Do the enlisters get paid in bootcamp?
2. Is infantry enlistment bonus 14,000?

[Bill]

When i was in the infantry enlistment was 5k.

However i was at the Willowgrove air show the other day chatting up a Major(A-10 pilot) from my board at the Hog static display, and an Army recruiting SSGT who was standing there stepped right in and offered me a 4 year active re-enlistment with a guaranteed sniper slot, entry as E-5, and 15,000 cash bonus when he realized i was prior service B4.

It was very hard to say no, but my body simply couldn't hack it anymore. I'm not a big guy, and the first time round put a ton of wear and tear on my body. Being ran over a couple different times over the last couple years in my current (very well paying, which is another consideration) profession didn't exactly help any either. I get pinched nerves about 3-4x a year that leave me laid up for days at a time, and a set of rickety old infantry knees. There's just no way i could perform to the level i previously did. I know i could still pass the APFT, but my 292 days are about 6-7 years behind me. I'd be (very) lucky to crack a 260 now, after i was in shape.

Besides, when i did try to re-up(reserves) right after 9-11 i had to jump through more hoops than a circus clown because i was over thirty(35 now), and i got the distinct feeling that the recruiter at the time felt he only needed to take the cream of the crop of 18 -21 yo's because of the rush of volunteers right after the attacks.
Nevertheless, i persisted for a full four months, retook the ASVAB(scored an 89), provided my ENTIRE employment history since the day i ETS'd in 1990(and boy that was fun to put together), went to MEPS, physicaled, the whole 9 yds.
Not three days after my physical, the Sgt that had been processing me retired to freakin' Kansas or something, and somehow lost my entire packet(including the employment history). I got a call about a week later from some other recruiter that wanted me to start all over again. I had just started my business right before 9-11, and by the time i got that call it had really taken off, so i basicaly told him to 'f off'.

[Shek]

I have a couple of questions
1. Do the enlisters get paid in bootcamp?
2. Is infantry enlistment bonus 14,000?

To answer #1, yes, you get paid whatever your entry rank is (E-1 unless you have some college credits that may increase your entry level rank). For #2, you'll need to talk to a local recruiter as the bonuses change often based on enlistment rates. Right, demand for enlistees is high and supply is low, so bonuses are high to entice people to come in. That may or may not hold 6 months from now, etc. It also depends on what contract you want. For example If you want an airborne contract, and they have more guys in the airborne than they need, you may have to settle for a lower enlistment bonus to get a guaranteed airborne slot. The free market at work.

[Bill]

When i was in if you got airborne guaranteed it was a 3yr contract, with no enlistment bonus.

Things are of course, much different now.