Development of Democracy

[omon]

imo democracy is the same illusion as communism but on the other end of the stick.

[Bigfella]

Thanks for the replies. Just a few points before I get to specifics. I'm not trying to start a 'what is democracy?' thread. This is more about its spread in the modern world. I realise that there will be definitional questions about which nations were 'in' or 'out', but I'm hoping that the examples I gave in my first post will serve as guidelines. To reitertate, I am accepting a limited franchise in the manner of the UK or Imperial Germany (tended to be education & property based but covered the middle class & even some below) but the legislature must have genuine power (which puts Imperial Germany on the borderline or out).

So far as of 1850 we have the US, UK, Netherlands & Denmark. Tarek might be able to tell us about the individual German states after 1848. In time they woild be absorbed into an essentially non-democratic nation, but I'm curious if there might have been a brief period of a few years where there were a few democracies about the place. I got the impression that any spring was brief, but I don't know. Similarly, does anyone know about pre-unification Italy? Again, I know that 1848 had an impact there, but I'm not sure in what way. Perhaps a confluence of events in Europe & a few democracies in Latin America might have pushed us near to 20 for a brief time around 1848-1850 before a relapse.

[astralis]

BF,

Here is the question that occoured - when did the world get on or near that many democracies? Now, I need to make my definitions clear. I'm not talking modern liberal democracies. Societies with a limited franchise or even slavery can be permitted if elected leaders were more or less the ones who governed the nation.

The obvious nations that get in here are the US & UK (especially after 1832). France under the 3rd Republic is in, under Napoleon 3 not, and I'm not sure about Louis Phillppe. Prussia in the early C20th is sort of a line - any less power to parliaments means no democracy, any more gets you included. Self governing colonies like those in Australia don't count. The areas where I'm unsure are smaller European nations - the low countries, Scandanavia, Italy, Greece, Iberian Penninsular. I'm also unsure about Latin America. I know that there were democracies that rose & fell there, but I'm not sure how many there were at any given time.

So, how long did it take for us to rack up 20 simultaneous democracies. Were we there in 1840?, 1880? 1900? 1920? or was it even later?

this should be of some help.

Third Wave Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW, the end of this article is a bit outdated. the general consensus was that the third wave peaked in the mid-90s. there has been a long ebb up to this very day, although IF the arab spring countries do democratize this may very well constitute the fourth wave.

[ArmchairGeneral]

This might qualify as good example of nascent democracy from ancient times

Licchavi (clan) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds kind of like Poland in the days of the liberum veto.

[Nightowl]

That was an interesting read on wikipedia :)

[Albany Rifles]

Would you count 1776 USA a democracy? Only very few men were actually given the right to vote.

Actually you could go earlier if you look at the colonial legislatures...albeit you had to be a land owner.

In 1775 the American subjects of Great Britain enjoyed the greatest freedoms of any population on the planet and each had a form of home rule which was the envy of Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

Also, how do you define constitutional monarchies?

[ArmchairGeneral]

Actually you could go earlier if you look at the colonial legislatures...albeit you had to be a land owner.

In 1775 the American subjects of Great Britain enjoyed the greatest freedoms of any population on the planet and each had a form of home rule which was the envy of Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

Yeah, but Bigfella's criteria rule out self ruled colonies, IIUC.

[Bigfella]

Thanks to all for the contributions.

Astralis gave me a lead that has helped to give some form of an answer. I found a copy of Huntington's 'Third Wave'. It has a small segment on the first two waves. According to his criteria (I won't get into an argument on them, they will do for now) A spurt of democratic activity just after WW1 among the newly independent nations of Eastern Europe pushed the number of democracies over the 20 mark. From the early 30s onward this slid back until there were only about 12 democracies in 1942. I'll try to do a list, but the way they are laid out in the book is not as clear as it might be.

[bigross86]

Alfred, Greece is great, but that's not what we're discussing at the moment. Read the entire thread before posting

[Kansas Bear]

Also, how do you define constitutional monarchies?

A monarchy that through its mistakes, mis-steps and just plain disregard had allowed a parliament to gain control of government. :D

[bigross86]

Yeah, that'll about do it...

[Bigfella]

A monarchy that through its mistakes, mis-steps and just plain disregard had allowed a parliament to gain control of government. :D

Can I steal that?

[Kansas Bear]

Can I steal that?

Sure, for a case of Talisker.

[bigross86]

That's not stealing, that's trading/bartering

[Bigfella]

Sure, for a case of Talisker.

Hmmm. Think I'll split the case with my lawyer & risk a law suit.