Proof..the truth starts to come about

[highsea]

...That you would think to make such absurd claims when there is not a shred of evidence supporting them is perhaps not a surprise given the behavior of the US media and certain US lawmakers.

Behavior of the US media and US lawmakers?

Are you FREAKING SERIOUS?

WHAT ABOUT PAKISTAN'S BEHAVIOR?

I'm not the slightest bit interested in your excuses and rationalizations.

Your military/intelligence services have been harboring OBL for at least 5 years, all the while pointing their finger at Afghanistan.

Wake up and smell the shit you're shoveling.

[highsea]

...I don't know that the location was an ISI safehouse nor can determine how anybody else might.

S-2, I respect the hell out of you, and I pay attention to what you write. Anytime you want to stop by my shop you're welcome and I'll buy the first round at the Lucky lab.

But I can't give the benefit of the doubt to those two-faced, backstabbing, treacherous, lying bastards. Sorry.

[S2]

What's confusing to me is the absence of committed warriors to defend him and any other way out. No tunnels, etc. Now five years may convince a guy he's safe but somebody (either OBL personally or his advisors) knew that electronic traffic would be a possible tip-off. So that was a concern...and eliminated.

The house itself seemed designed to keep prying eyes out. Without the guards, however, repelling an assault would take more than high walls.

How one could be so seemingly serenely secure is difficult to fathom.

[dave lukins]

What's confusing to me is the absence of committed warriors to defend him and any other way out. No tunnels, etc. Now five years may convince a guy he's safe but somebody (either OBL personally or his advisors) knew that electronic traffic would be a possible tip-off. So that was a concern...and eliminated.

The house itself seemed designed to keep prying eyes out. Without the guards, however, repelling an assault would take more than high walls.

How one could be so seemingly serenely secure is difficult to fathom.

The Worlds most wanted man with $millions on his head and no noticeable high end security does seem odd but then again if there was huge amounts of security he may not have been 'un-observed' by the Pakistani Intelligence for over five years ;)

[highsea]

...The house itself seemed designed to keep prying eyes out. Without the guards, however, repelling an assault would take more than high walls.

How one could be so seemingly serenely secure is difficult to fathom.

The location was the protection. They believed an attack couldn't happen there. The US is going to bomb right next door to the premier Pakistani military academy?

They would have made us look like fools. "You killed a retired general and his entire family. Why didn't you ask us? Don't you think we would know whose house that was?"

They never foresaw a commando assault. It was unthinkable that the US would even consider such an act right next door to that academy.

They were "cooperating" with the US, and they would have plenty of time to move him if we started making noises about that location.

Remember back in 2006-2007, all that shit going on in Iraq. OBL was passing on instructions to Zarqawi from that house...

[Julie]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with defending Pakistan against unsubstantiated propaganda by the US media and establishment. It is not my fault that your media and lawmakers are making outrageous allegations without any credible evidence whatsoever. Tell them to shut up until they can prove their case and you won't have these arguments.

WTF you talkin about? The US hasn't made outrageous allegations.....the US has proved their point by plucking the most wanted terrorist worldwide right from under Pakistan's nose.

Say what you want AM, but the proof is in the pudding by that raid. It showed the true colors of Pakistan, and not only is Pakistan in NO position to negotiate anything, rhetoric and a band-aid isn't going to fix this big showdown.

Let's just see how it plays out.....

[S2]

Geez, guys. I'm not sure you're catching my drift. I guess I'm wondering if he felt a need for tunnels and top-flight guards. Maybe somebody or something assured him such wouldn't be necessary there.

[highsea]

Geez, guys. I'm not sure you're catching my drift. I guess I'm wondering if he felt a need for tunnels and top-flight guards. Maybe somebody or something assured him such wouldn't be necessary there.

Tunnels, maybe. I'm sure he had an escape plan, he must have thought he would get enough warning to skeedaddle. He had money sewn into his clothes.

Guards? He must have had some, there was a firefight and it takes more than a few women and children to tie up a seal team.

But don't you think his security depended entirely on our not finding him, no matter where he was? No amount of personal guards is going to protect someone from B-1 full of JDAMs. Too many people at that location would have compromised secrecy.

We didn't suspect that house, we tracked the courier there. Can you imagine our surprise when we got a positive ID?

Pannetta: "He's living WHERE?"

[S2]

Highseas Reply

"Can you imagine our surprise when we got a positive ID?

Pannetta: "He's living WHERE?"

Ummm..., priceless?

[highsea]

...Ummm..., priceless?

No doubt.

So getting back to the suspension of all reason mode.....

Let's just say the Pakistani story is all true. The army had no clue, the ISI had no clue, Pakistan is our trusted ally completely deserving of MNNA status.

Okay fine. You're Osama bin Laden. The entire Pakistani army and intelligence apparatus is looking for you. They are scouring the country. They really want to hand you over to their good friend and ally the USA, who will be eternally grateful.

You're in danger.
You need a hiding place.
You're looking for a place to build a house.
You're tooling around Abbotabad in your Land Rover, wearing your trusty Groucho disguise...

"Say, there's a pretty nice piece of property, it's in my price range. I wonder how the neighbors are?"

[Double Edge]

Maybe somebody or something assured him such wouldn't be necessary there.

The lack of tunnels did strike me as odd initially, but then one wonders how far they would get him anyway. Looking at the lay of the land what good would they serve ?

[highsea]

How do we know there are no tunnels? Beause OBL didn't get away in one, therefore they must not exist?

What floor was he on when he was shot? How much time did he have after the commotion started?

How much time did we spend looking for tunnels?

[Parihaka]

But they didn't neutralize him, which makes them our enemy.

The question is, which part of Pakistan is your enemy. Doubtfully the civil administration. The bulk of the population comprise the survivors of the indigenous population plus the millions of Indians driven north by religious propaganda during the partition.
The actual rulers of Pakistan regard that country not as a defined series of borders but simply a state of mind, a fluid cantonment in which military and financial assets can be mustered until such time as they triumphally return to their 'rightful' place as rulers of all India.
They staff the upper echelons of the ISI and the military, and if ever the general populace and their parliament get out of line they smack them down.
Standard retributions or 'bombing them back to the stone age' won't acheive the desired result: to the rulers Pakistan the country's only use is that it sits astride an important geographical location and a number of geological assets. These will continue to be exploited regardless of what happens to the bulk of the population.

If as I suspect the US is going to take punitive action against this ruling elite it will be in the form of more incursions into Pakistan, both drone and on foot, and most importantly far more CIA assets than even now operate there. The ISI having compromised, perhaps attempted to kill and certainly held Davis for three months is now going to find what the PAF and PA have just discovered: There's squat all they can do about a pissed-off super power.

[Yusuf]

I think there was a report about the US using radars on satellites to see if there were any tunnels.

I don't think ST6 looked for anything else but OBL and the harddrives. The pakistanis would know about it but not tell.
Another thing that should give a clue about Pakistani non cooperation is not handing over OBLs wives a d children to the US to get more info. Obviously not as they will be further exposed by the revelations.
Media reports already say that one of his wives has told that they lived in a village in Pakistan for over two years. All put together OBL has been in Pakistan for around 8 years!!!

[Mihais]

The lack of guards isn't that surprising.There is no real reason for them,no matter how you look at it.Only in movies bad guys surround their compounds with armed thugs patrolling around the pool

Having no guard nearby doesn't preclude having protection from the distance.Every move there probably was surveilled.Like I said elsewhere,this isn't a job for everyday's cop,not even for the local garrison.OBL was a state asset.
Highsea,with respect,he can't be in a cage(thus a prisoner or a hostage) and harbored(which allows one shelter and freedom of action).Al Zarqawi and AQI were already an AQ franchise that didn't really needed OBL's directives except the most general ones.But those very broad directives can also be found in newspapers,so what's the deal?
I've no love for the Pakistanis and their nefarious role in A-stan.They deserve every bit of sanction for that.If OBL creates a pretext for strong measures against Pakistan,all for the better,but the 2 aren't necessarily connected. They really can't be THAT idiotic.
The US public is right to be angered,but it's for the wrong reason .But that will due.Just like Al Capone was arrested for the some trivial thing,he nevertheless went to prison.