4 Americans killed by Somali pirates..........

[T_igger_cs_30]

I suggest the USN, and USMC go in there and take back the 30 boats, summarily execute the surviving pirates, and send a clear message - we kill pirates, quickly, thoroughly and assuredly. We can use a coalition if desired, the Indians, Russians, and others who aren't afraid to do it right - any of these countries who fear the death penalty should stay out of it.

Apologies USSW, I read your post to fast .....................

Tigger, the Russians were included along with the Indians on the list of those who aren't afraid to do it right

Corrected BR ;)

[Zad Fnark]

Handcuff pirates to boat.

Sink Boat.

No feedin', no fussin', no fur.

One can always fantasize.

ZF-

[Officer of Engineers]

Last I read, all Navies enforcing the safe passage have engaged in lethal actions. That has not stopped the pirates. Frankly, there is one and only one option, and one demonstrated by history time and time again. A land punitive expedition. Go into the pirate strong hold and destroy it. Failing that, priracy would never stop and in time, the pirates would be stronger than any force trying to stop them. Ask the Spaniards.

[JAD_333]

Last I read, all Navies enforcing the safe passage have engaged in lethal actions. That has not stopped the pirates. Frankly, there is one and only one option, and one demonstrated by history time and time again. A land punitive expedition. Go into the pirate strong hold and destroy it. Failing that, priracy would never stop and in time, the pirates would be stronger than any force trying to stop them. Ask the Spaniards.

Tripoli would be another example, but one that was successful. Semper Fi.

[Bigfella]

Last I read, all Navies enforcing the safe passage have engaged in lethal actions. That has not stopped the pirates. Frankly, there is one and only one option, and one demonstrated by history time and time again. A land punitive expedition. Go into the pirate strong hold and destroy it. Failing that, priracy would never stop and in time, the pirates would be stronger than any force trying to stop them. Ask the Spaniards.

Its a good point Col. Yu.

These guys have been brought up or in an ongoing environment of chaos, violence & death I'm not sure anyone here could comprehend (imagine a war zone were the war doesn't really end & there is no government to enforce the rule of law). Plenty of pirates have already been killed, some by the US. Killing more may have a 'feelgood' factor & provide some justice, but it clearly isn't much of a deterrent. A punitive expedition on land would be more effective, but even that might only be a temporary fix unless Somalia has a government & it is prepared to police its ports. Judging by the persistence of piracy in the Malacca straits & Sth China sea, where there are such governments, this may be easier said than done.

[USSWisconsin]

Somethings remain the same - like the economic reasons leading to piracy, but others have changed - with satellite recon, we can keep an eye on the region much better than ever before, while I don't think we will be able to keep short range pirates at bay - like the ones who operate within a few dozen miles of shore, but the blue water pirates in the region should not be all that hard to find and address. A frigate with a helicopter should be able to cover quite a tract - with satellite intel, and with an international coalition, it seems possible to put a dozen such frigates in the region. The rules of engagement need to be: catch them, verify they are pirates, execute, no fishing boat needs an RPG for self defense in peacetime. If the possibility of being searched and executed leads to the weapons going to the bottom, that would not be all that bad of an outcome - then they will need to return to shore and rearm, which will cramp their operations - and telephoto video cameras could be used to record the dumping of weapons as soon as the chopper is in visual range. The land expedition sounds good to me, pull out some of their cords, take away the safe haven.

[Stitch]

Last I read, all Navies enforcing the safe passage have engaged in lethal actions. That has not stopped the pirates. Frankly, there is one and only one option, and one demonstrated by history time and time again. A land punitive expedition. Go into the pirate strong hold and destroy it. Failing that, priracy would never stop and in time, the pirates would be stronger than any force trying to stop them. Ask the Spaniards.

Sir,

Would you possibly be referring to the Battle Of Berne in 1805?

[Mihais]

More likely the English,French and Dutch pirates in the 1600's.

OOE,Sir,with due respect,but the lethal actions of the navies have been too few to scare them badly.Most of those lethal actions involved non-NATO ships and those navies have a smaller presence in the AO.It's not a sistematic campaign to kill them all.Those that end captured enjoy living standards they never dreamed,in the prison.

About the land expedition I'd agree,with the addendum that probably many such expeditions will be needed.Each will probably buy a few weeks/months of peace then it will have to be repeated.Until they get the hint.

[Officer of Engineers]

Would you possibly be referring to the Battle Of Berne in 1805?

Mihas got it right. I was thinking the failure of the Spanish Armada marked the downfall of Spanish naval supremacy.

OOE,Sir,with due respect,but the lethal actions of the navies have been too few to scare them badly.Most of those lethal actions involved non-NATO ships and those navies have a smaller presence in the AO.It's not a sistematic campaign to kill them all.Those that end captured enjoy living standards they never dreamed,in the prison.

Even with more lethal actions, the Somalis are not going to be short of recruits. Like the Spanish ships of old, more than a few pirate ships and staging areas were taken out. Even the threat of the Spanish Armada did not reduced English piracy.

About the land expedition I'd agree,with the addendum that probably many such expeditions will be needed.Each will probably buy a few weeks/months of peace then it will have to be repeated.Until they get the hint.

Need only one but we don't have the stomach for it. Every man, woman, child and dog.

[Bill]

Well it's a good thing Bill Clinton ran from there in 1993 instead of staying while we had the forces in country, and actually fixing the government.

[Mihais]

Even more important,the Rangers and the Deltas could have had their revenge.The Habr-Gedir were scared s...less at the prospect.

[Pedicabby]

I am all for whacking these scumbags, they won't be missed. But that ain't gonna happen. Could the powers that be not impose a no sail zone? There was a no fly zone to keep Saddam in his box so why not have a no sail zone for Somalia? If Somalian pirates cant put to sea then they cant do pirate things. If the Israeli navy can maintain a blockade that keeps hippys and others from bringing stuff to Gaza I am sure the international community can stop boats from leaving their territorial waters.

[USSWisconsin]

maybe they could put in a sensor line - something like we had in the cold war or "the war on drugs" ?

[Chogy]

Interesting that a slew of military professionals (myself included, if I might claim that title) are baffled at the lack of lethal response to this piracy issue. Pirates have been acknowledged as "scum" throughout history, and no one sheds any tears when they become protein for sea creatures.

The basis of defense starts with the victims. While you cannot easily arm a private yacht, a 100 meter freighter has the mass to mount 25mm (or larger) automatic cannon fore and aft. Augment with a few 12.7mm heavy machine guns on pedestals. Hired operators become part of the freighter crew, and radar can be tweaked to detect approaching pirates at night or in bad weather. Flare launchers would be nice for illumination.

Zodiacs, life boats, or other frail craft carrying pirates armed with RPGs and AK's would be shredded with automatic weapons fire. Problem solved. Insurance underwriters would probably be thrilled with a simple solution like this.

Do not the laws of the sea allow lethal defense? If armed, screeching hordes are about to swarm your ship, it's not hard to justify.

[Cactus]

Do not the laws of the sea allow lethal defense? If armed, screeching hordes are about to swarm your ship, it's not hard to justify.

Port authorities in many countries take a dim view of armed foreigners routinely approaching their ports. The very large freighters, which typically run fixed routes, maybe able to make arrangements with the ports of call if they have the political pull. Trawlers and smaller freighters, who have been hit hardest by this piracy, neither have the political pull to negotiate with sensitive governments nor do they have the luxury of avoiding those ports.