Chinese education thread:

[xinhui]

Not to mention the aformentioned cherry picking of China's wealthiest regions.

If you read the article, the chat clearly stated that "In the study, China was represented by city of Shanghai and by the administrative regions of hong Kong and Macao." and Hong Kong scored third place. Indeed, the population of Shanghai alone is greater than many mid-sized nations.

if indeed CCP only allowed cherry-pick, I think the organization would trash the score. And that does not explain the score of HongKong with its education system outside of the Chinese government control.

I see many issues with the Chinese education system, but just pointing out what the study is trying to say.

[weaponww]

It doesn't indicate much of anything but a select few. CCP doesn't allow American test adminstrators to give tests to any students they want to. They are selected by officials of the most outstanding classes in the area. It is like taking a standardized test into the best AP classes in California and saying it represents the whole state. Not to mention the aformentioned cherry picking of China's wealthiest regions.

As far as exchange students, many lower tier universities go head hunting in China to fill their rolls. Most Chinese that come to study in the US come this way. The school's lax their enrollment policy so they can collect full tuition fees. When the students get to class, they often find themselves struggling with listening comprehension and their attempts to communicate both verbal and written. It is common for Chinese students to use a Chinese textbook as an alternate source of information as it is too hard for them to get through English. When I taught at the international school in Shanghai, it was my job to prepare students who planned to go to university abroad. For most it was too little too late, but I kept in contact with many of them, offer advice and help if I could. They let me know how it really is for them.

i'm talking about the recently finished PISA, where Shanghai, and some other Asia nation score on the top of list. The reason is they study much harder and longer than some other countires. This is very true for chinese student before college.
Chinese school may lock some creativity, but no one can deny chinese and some Asia countries has powerful math skills. As for exchange students, they do have trouble with English, thats only because english its not in their native tongue. I talk to and befriend many exchange student sover here in the US. I can tell you most of chinese student's GPA in the US university are above 3.5/4.0 scale.
have you notice how many foreign student are in Undergrad/Grad school, especially school of engineering.

[weaponww]

It is extremely simple. If you get a job in your chosen field after graduation, then, you've got a good education. If you delivering pizza after graduation, you've got screwed.

yea well, with current economy, i know people got 2 master and 1 undergrad degree from big ten are still looking for jobs after 10 month

[RoccoR]

weaponww, et al,

EXACTLY!

yea well, with current economy, i know people got 2 master and 1 undergrad degree from big ten are still looking for jobs after 10 month

(COMMENT)

Some number of posts ago, I mentioned that there are fewer and fewer opportunities out there for science and engineering degrees. We call this "under-employment." You can get a job, but not at the level consistent with your education.

Why would an American go to school for a major, heavy hitting science or engineering degree when their are no opportunities out there?

This is because all the corporations have outsourced these positions.

Most Respectfully,
R

[KRON1]

If you read the article, the chat clearly stated that "In the study, China was represented by city of Shanghai and by the administrative regions of hong Kong and Macao." and Hong Kong scored third place. Indeed, the population of Shanghai alone is greater than many mid-sized nations.

Indeed it is, everybody and their brother wants to move there to make money, go to school, and pay insane license plate fees. Shanghai schools do not allow village hokou unless students score very high on entrance exams. My school only accepted the best.

if indeed CCP only allowed cherry-pick, I think the organization would trash the score. And that does not explain the score of HongKong with its education system outside of the Chinese government control.

You might think so, but OECD came through my school and did that very thing. Following CCP's rules is the only way they get to do it. They won't let PISA officials near the low tier public schools, the reason PISA doesn't do a nation wide sample is because CCP won't allow it. They don't want to lose face by showing what the scores will really be by representative sample.

The scores for HK are representative, but they have a much more liberal system.

[kyli]

The scores for HK are representative, but they have a much more liberal system.

As a Hong Konger, I dispute this assessment. It is well known that the mainstream education system in Hong Kong has been described as spoon-fed. The top schools in HK were all cram schools. We were well known to have 填鴨式教育 system.

I have also had one year education experience in China. The distinctive difference between HK and China is that HK education system is influenced by UK. Therefore, HK schools usually offer broader course scope and less politics. Otherwise, both HK and China schools prefer cramming over creativity.

[KRON1]

As a Hong Konger, I dispute this assessment. It is well known that the mainstream education system in Hong Kong has been described as spoon-fed. The top schools in HK were all cram schools. We were well known to have 填鴨式教育 system.

I have also had one year education experience in China. The distinctive difference between HK and China is that HK education system is influenced by UK. Therefore, HK schools usually offer broader course scope and less politics. Otherwise, both HK and China schools prefer cramming over creativity.

Broader course scope means more liberal. EOC exams are making US public schools more cram oriented as well, unlike China, both the US and HK have freedom of information China doesn't have. Freedom to say and do things others might not agree with is an important factor in how creative people will be. All that is really beside the point of the PISA test as it is a skills assessment, not a benchmark of creativity. The real point about HK is that PISA is allowed to properly sample making their score representative unlike the mainland.

[xinhui]

both the US and HK have freedom of information China doesn't have.

What a broken record -- in political science sure, how is basic math skills has to do with political freedom? The fact is, in the company I work for, the most advanced mathematics is done by Phds educated under the old soviet system in Russia. Our Polish office is doing some extremely impressive chip designs

Germany during WWII seems to be very creative in weapon designs and yet it had a very closed political system.

if you lived in China as you stated, it is economic freedom aka the market that drives new products. Money is the driving factor for folks to spend time at night school to get their MBAs in China not because CCP is pointing a gun to their head. I like apple-pie as much as the next guy, but let not this "freedom-of-information" cloud everything, every debate.

[KRON1]

What a broken record -- in political science sure, how is basic math skills has to do with political freedom? The fact is, in the company I work for, the most advanced mathematics is done by Phds educated under the old soviet system in Russia. Our Polish office is doing some extremely impressive chip designs. Germany during WWII seems to be very creative in weapon designs and yet it had a very closed political system.

Lets see, why is Social Studies important? Because it is about UNDERSTANDING how and why the world works. With limited information and viewpoints, you will most often make wrong decisions in all aspects of life and business. There really is substance to the phrase "Knowledge is power." If you are scolded from sharing ideas, you will keep them to yourself and never share something that could be valuable to invention and innovation. The Chinese education system produces a bunch of followers when what the economy needs is a generation of leaders. . There is a reason why China has poor global brand recognition, they don't know how the world works outside China.

if you lived in China as you stated, it is economic freedom aka the market that drives new products. Money is the driving factor for folks to spend time at night school to get their MBAs in China not because CCP is pointing a gun to their head. I like apple-pie as much as the next guy, but let not this "freedom-of-information" cloud everything, every debate.

The most important thing I learned about China is that material gain has trumped moral values. People have become so self-centered that if it doesn't concern their self improvement it isn't worthy of action. I watched a guy get run over by a motorbike with a street full of people watching. Instead of helping the limping man get to hospital, they just stopped and stared. I was shocked to learn that Stop and Stare is practically a national urban pastime. Fortunately it has not perpetrated the rural areas too much. Then of course one only needs look at the business model which places profits over consumer safety. It happens in the US but not even a percent as much as China. I found most of my friends in a local Church and learned that one of the last places of moral decency in China is with the fellowship in Christ. I always wondered why Christianity was growing so fast, but now I know. The material gain driving them to the Chinese MBA doesn't mean a whole lot of beans if they can't get a job with it. You can blame that on a education that doesn't produce leaders but followers and a centrally planned economy that shuns anything that competes with state monopolies.

[xinhui]

Again,

The thread is about basic math, not about "Social Studies", is it?

if they can't get a job with it

Don't see you the NYT article I posted in this thread about college grad not getting jobs? (see post #6)

I found most of my friends in a local Church and learned that one of the last places of moral decency in China is with the fellowship in Christ

ok..... then.

China does something, say can't sh*T) auto reply with a) they lied, b) they don't have political freedom, C) they don't have moral values, and wait for it... wait for it D) they need to accept Christ as their savior.

I am just talking about basic math, dude. I really don't care who's on top after all it was the "market" that drive the i-pad to a success , not basic math.


disclaimer: I am a proud non-apple owner.

[Double Edge]

Lets see, why is Social Studies important? Because it is about UNDERSTANDING how and why the world works. With limited information and viewpoints, you will most often make wrong decisions in all aspects of life and business. There really is substance to the phrase "Knowledge is power." If you are scolded from sharing ideas, you will keep them to yourself and never share something that could be valuable to invention and innovation. The Chinese education system produces a bunch of followers when what the economy needs is a generation of leaders. . There is a reason why China has poor global brand recognition, they don't know how the world works outside China.

Agree, but the problem is those subjects you mentioned do not help in getting a job that pays well. Not everybody is technical minded tho so those are the ones that will study those subjects.

The most important thing I learned about China is that material gain has trumped moral values. People have become so self-centered that if it doesn't concern their self improvement it isn't worthy of action. I watched a guy get run over by a motorbike with a street full of people watching. Instead of helping the limping man get to hospital, they just stopped and stared. I was shocked to learn that Stop and Stare is practically a national urban pastime.

The bolded bit. A leader in my country said the very same thing about my people recently against the spate of the numerous scandals that erupted recently

Its uncanny, the similarities between the two countries.

Then of course one only needs look at the business model which places profits over consumer safety. It happens in the US but not even a percent as much as China.

Your liability laws are the reason.

I found most of my friends in a local Church and learned that one of the last places of moral decency in China is with the fellowship in Christ. I always wondered why Christianity was growing so fast, but now I know. The material gain driving them to the Chinese MBA doesn't mean a whole lot of beans if they can't get a job with it. You can blame that on a education that doesn't produce leaders but followers and a centrally planned economy that shuns anything that competes with state monopolies.

Could you expand a bit more on the bolded bit.

[CardSharp]

Could you expand a bit more on the bolded bit.

I think Christianity is growing at a good clip in China, but rather than some emotional theory about people being driven to it in a society sans moral decency. It's more a situation of it's there and it's a religion. All major religions proselytize and all very successful at it (or else they'd die off) and China is the new vast untapped market for proselytizing after decades of enforced areligiousness. There are plenty of Christians from here who go to China under the false pretense of doing business to convert people. It's a religious gold-rush of sorts.

[KRON1]

Agree, but the problem is those subjects you mentioned do not help in getting a job that pays well. Not everybody is technical minded tho so those are the ones that will study those subjects.

And it is those people that create jobs people with technical skills work in. China needs an education system that fosters independent thinking, not the uniformity that creates only technicians. It is a factory designed education when it needs to be focusing on higher reasoning. It is a large reason why China copies and not innovate new products. Has massive amounts of low wage technical jobs, poor brand recognition, and specializes in low value goods. Quite frankly China needs to get into the service economy. The people aren't trained for that and have to turn the West to get it.

The bolded bit. A leader in my country said the very same thing about my people recently against the spate of the numerous scandals that erupted recently

Its uncanny, the similarities between the two countries.

Your liability laws are the reason.

The problem comes in corruption of both governments. Pay off the right babus and issues get swept under the rug. China can more easily hide it as they control the press while Indian press is sometimes out of control and distracts from the real issue. That is why freedom of information channeled the proper way can make dramatic improvements in an economy. Both countries are getting better at revealing these issues and hope in time that the judiciaries can do something about it.

Could you expand a bit more on the bolded bit.

Christianity is the fastest growing relegion in China. So much so that the CCP had to officially recognize it and sanction state churches to try and control it. The reason people are flocking to it by the tens of millions is the degredation of morals the CCP fosters by promoting material gain at any cost. You can see it in the programs they watch. People are so materialistic, a woman will not marry you unless you own property and they have TV shows promoting that idea. People flock to the fellowship of Christ because it is a haven of morality they are not finding in daily life. People who are not your family will actually help you in time of need. It is a support base that is very important.

[xinhui]

People flock to the fellowship of Christ because it is a haven of morality they are not finding in daily life. People who are not your family will actually help you in time of need. It is a support base that is very important.

Are you over-generalizing an entire people? Are you telling me there is no kindness in China's 1.3 billion non-believers?

[xinhui]

time out for KRON1


Not comfortable with him turning WAB into an evangelical christian church. WAB is not a place for him for proselytizing.


warming mister robinson danger, danger.