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**citanon** · 11 Jun 10,, 03:18

Why aren't we arming these villagers to the teeth????

Originally posted by Tronic View Post

Taleban hang 7-year-old boy to punish family

A seven-year-old boy was murdered by the Taleban in an apparent act of retribution this week. Afghan officials said that the child was accused of spying for US and Nato forces and hanged from a tree in southern Afghanistan.

Daoud Ahmadi, the spokesman for the provincial governor of Helmand, said that the killing happened days after the boy�s grandfather, Abdul Woodod Alokozai, spoke out against militants in their home village.

Mr Ahmadi said: �His grandfather is a tribal elder in the village and the village is under the control of the Taleban. His grandfather said some good things about the Government and he formed a small group of people to stand against the Taleban. That�s why the Taleban killed his grandson in revenge.�

The attack happened in Heratiyan, in Sangin, near where insurgents shot down an American Pave Hawk helicopter on Wednesday, killing all four crew. The helicopter was swooping over the town to suppress attacks on a grounded air ambulance, which was picking up British casualties.

Shamsuddin Khan Faryie, an elder in Heratiyan, said that the boy, identified as the son of Abul Qudooz, was seized as he played in his garden. He was found hanged from a nearby tree.

Mr Faryie said that there were conflicting reports within the village over who was responsible. �Some people said that it was Taleban,� he said. �Some people said they were private enemies. Some Taleban I spoke to said that he was a spy. Some said that it wasn�t them.�

The killing of children to punish their families has echoes of Western mafia-style violence. Under Pashtunwali, the ancient honour code of the Pashtuns, it is likely to provoke more vendettas and blood-letting.

Qari Yousef Ahmaid, the Taleban spokesman, denied that any of his militants were involved. �The Taleban�s enemies are the Afghan Government and the foreign forces,� he said. �We never kill children. Everyone knows a seven-year-old can�t be a spy.�

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Taleban hang 7-year-old boy to punish family - Times Online

**Tronic** · 11 Jun 10,, 05:26

Originally posted by citanon View Post

Why aren't we arming these villagers to the teeth????

Arming them?? Forget arming them, they have actually been disarming them; because they don't know who is Taliban who is not, so wherever they find any weapons, they are confiscated. I don't agree with this method, because it just means that you take away guns from potential good guys. The bad guys will continue to wield the guns. Confiscating their weapons is an even worse idea, when you know you won't be around to protect these people, and will most likely pull out to a different area of operations in due time.

**citanon** · 11 Jun 10,, 08:18

Originally posted by Tronic View Post

Arming them?? Forget arming them, they have actually been disarming them; because they don't know who is Taliban who is not, so wherever they find any weapons, they are confiscated. I don't agree with this method, because it just means that you take away guns from potential good guys. The bad guys will continue to wield the guns. Confiscating their weapons is an even worse idea, when you know you won't be around to protect these people, and will most likely pull out to a different area of operations in due time.

Yep it's down right stupid. Almost as stupid as the idea that you can somehow do counter-insurgency with 100,000 guys in an country with 30 million tribesmen. The fact is we don't have nearly enough guys to change a 16 th century society into a modern state or even act as a constabulary force.

Right now we are confused about who we are. We're not the government in Kabul trying to keep the country under control. We are not idealists trying to bring peace and democracy. What we are is the biggest and baddest tribe in a country with many different tribes, and what we want is to make sure that every warlord, sheik, mullah or mobster who is in charge put our security interests as priority one on their agenda. To do this we need to drive home the point that our good will and benevolence is the foremost guarantor of survival.

Therefore, IMHO, we should forget the Afghan army and police. We need to arm the locals as heavily as we can so that they can give the Taliban a hard time where ever they go. Then we can be the big roving stick the villagers call in to kill overly problematic hajis or large assemblies of enemy forces. Taliban takes over a city and gathers a large force? Local tribe gets too cozy with the Talibs? Guess who gets crushed. Local tribal elders don't like the Taliban sneaking into their villages? Give them guns and money and let them sort out who's whom. Then give them more money so that they can take care of their villagers for being so nice to our cause.

Sounds like bribery? No duh, this is medieval land. To manage it we need to take a chapter from the feudal lords.

**Chogy** · 11 Jun 10,, 13:35

I tend to agree. When the coalition leaves, the "whack-a-mole" Taliban will pop up to find an entire country unarmed and ripe for conquest at gunpoint. Given the tribal nature, and the loyalties, heavily armed local militias will be far more useful than thinly-spread govt forces.

**Vinod2070** · 11 Jun 10,, 13:54

The self claimed title of "graveyard of empires" carries a heavy price and it is paid by the wretched people of the country.

It is doubtful if this society can be changed by any stimulus, internal or external. The best that can happen is that the troubles don't spill out.

**Cactus** · 11 Jun 10,, 17:07

Originally posted by Tronic View Post

Arming them?? Forget arming them, they have actually been disarming them; because they don't know who is Taliban who is not, so wherever they find any weapons, they are confiscated. I don't agree with this method, because it just means that you take away guns from potential good guys. The bad guys will continue to wield the guns. Confiscating their weapons is an even worse idea, when you know you won't be around to protect these people, and will most likely pull out to a different area of operations in due time.

Disagree. How do you filter between potential "good guys" and potential "bad guys"? Arming civilians is extremely dangerous, especially when you know that even ANA and ANP men are defecting. How do you trust people bound by no such oaths, with a cultural history of internecine feuding and little respect for rule of law, to use weapons only defensively?

If it were done right, a clemency period should be given for people to surrender weapons. After that, non-uniformed men spotted carrying weapons should be a shoot-on-sight ROE. Yes, "bad guys" will continue to wield weapons - until they are all killed, or come to learn the error of their ways.

**Tronic** · 11 Jun 10,, 18:20

Originally posted by Cactus View Post

Disagree. How do you filter between potential "good guys" and potential "bad guys"? Arming civilians is extremely dangerous, especially when you know that even ANA and ANP men are defecting. How do you trust people bound by no such oaths, with a cultural history of internecine feuding and little respect for rule of law, to use weapons only defensively?

If it were done right, a clemency period should be given for people to surrender weapons. After that, non-uniformed men spotted carrying weapons should be a shoot-on-sight ROE. Yes, "bad guys" will continue to wield weapons - until they are all killed, or come to learn the error of their ways.

Its just not going to happen. Not when you have a huge weapons factory and an army of insurgents sitting across your Eastern border. If you can't have heavily armed troops or police stationed around every village, or if not every village, than atleast in every zillah, it would be stupid for anyone to be deprived of their only means of protection.

**Cactus** · 11 Jun 10,, 18:59

Originally posted by Tronic View Post

Its just not going to happen. Not when you have a huge weapons factory and an army of insurgents sitting across your Eastern border. If you can't have heavily armed troops or police stationed around every village, or if not every village, than atleast in every zillah, it would be stupid for anyone to be deprived of their only means of protection.

COIN 101: An army of insurgents and weapons factory across the border is one step better than the same within the border. It takes less men and resources to secure a border than it takes to secure every village. By extension it takes even fewer resources to cross the border and destroy the arms factories. So on and so forth.

But you are right, it is not going to happen in A'stan. But the arithmetic is sound. And until it is embraced as a viable counter, the Arithmetic of the Frontier always wins.