PTSD-induced depression -- or just another political posture?

[tankie]

7th, no offense, but your attitude I don't believe reflects reality. It also promulgates an ancient attitude towards mental health, one that says "It's all in your head; be tough." Yeah, it is all in your head, but not in the way you think.

If a person's blood-sugar system gets out of whack, he gets diabetes. He takes medication (insulin) to control it; otherwise, he'd get sick and possibly die. Likewise, a hypertensive individual NEEDS medication, or he may get a stroke.

In the same way, not everyone's brain chemistry is the same. Some people lack certain neurotransmitters, or process them incorrectly, and the symptoms from such are very, very real. If a medication like an SSRI can correct the problem and alleviate the symptoms, then that medication is NEEDED in much the same as for any other health problem.

It's all in your head in the sense that the seat of the disorder is in the brain. Beyond that, it is not simply a matter of willpower or "shaking it off." Some people can, but many cannot, and we MUST remove the stigma of depression and other mental health issues. You don't stigmatize a guy who takes statins because his body doesn't process cholesterol properly and he has a total cholesterol over 300 despite eating like a rabbit.

Heres mine , im under control with the meds but i do still drink ,

metformin = diabettes
rozaglitizone= diabettes
aspirin = blood thinning
GTN spray = Angina
losarten = blood pressure (hypertension)
zimverstatin = cholesterol
omeprozole = digestive
sylitapram = depression
60mg dihydrachodine = painkillers for spondulosis ,arthritis , and i need a left shoulder rebuild .

Apart from this lot im in perfect health

[Blue]

There are other ways to deal with problems for some people, not others. The personal experience that I had with depression was my own and I was in such a black hole that there was no reasoning my way out of it. The drugs that I took (Fluvoxamine, a modern anti depressent from the class of Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor) didn't leave me in a fog or give me a high, they just made life bearable enough that I could reason through the problems that I had and now don't have to take anything apart from a bit of St John's Wort (a herbal anti-anxiety agent). Had I not had the option I can safely say that I wouldn't be typing this right now.

7th, no offense, but your attitude I don't believe reflects reality. It also promulgates an ancient attitude towards mental health, one that says "It's all in your head; be tough." Yeah, it is all in your head, but not in the way you think.

If a person's blood-sugar system gets out of whack, he gets diabetes. He takes medication (insulin) to control it; otherwise, he'd get sick and possibly die. Likewise, a hypertensive individual NEEDS medication, or he may get a stroke.

In the same way, not everyone's brain chemistry is the same. Some people lack certain neurotransmitters, or process them incorrectly, and the symptoms from such are very, very real. If a medication like an SSRI can correct the problem and alleviate the symptoms, then that medication is NEEDED in much the same as for any other health problem.

It's all in your head in the sense that the seat of the disorder is in the brain. Beyond that, it is not simply a matter of willpower or "shaking it off." Some people can, but many cannot, and we MUST remove the stigma of depression and other mental health issues. You don't stigmatize a guy who takes statins because his body doesn't process cholesterol properly and he has a total cholesterol over 300 despite eating like a rabbit.

Chogy, No offense, but there are alternatives to pharmaceutical drugs and technically, it IS all in your head, it just has different causes. I'm attaching a stigma to no one or taking the Gen Patton approach to therapy(quit your sniveling and get up and fight). I never meant to imply such a thing either.

Aussiegunner, as written above, used prescription drugs to get passed the hump and now uses homeopathic, natural aids. That's great for him and exactly what I am talking about here.

Pharma drugs aren't designed to cure anything. They want you on them because that is how big pharma became big pharma. You can grow your own herbs but you can't make your own statin drug. Where do you think the molecular formulas for these drugs come from? An herb that does the same thing for you! Thing is that drug companies can't make millions off a common herb. I don't want to get started on the worst fraud since the federal reserve, the FDA and drug companies.

There are natural remedies times more effective than scrips and without ANY of the side effects. I can tell you a hundred stories of people I have gotten them off some wierd scrip for everything from Arthritis to high blood press to diabetes and now live without the problem and without the financial burden these overpriced poisons impose.

In my case and others here, we simply chose a more natural way to deal with our ills. One can argue that drugs are best, I don't see it that way. I looked for the long term result and got it. Its not one size fits all and the same treatment may not work for all. I don't hold it against anyone that chooses otherwise, to each his own.

I will say and out loud that there is always an alternative to everything. Some paths are easy, some are hard. Some are expensive, some are cheap. Lifes all about choices, choose wisely and pick goals that challenge you is all I am saying. Remember also that different peoples definition of hard can vary widely. For some cases I have no sympathy, especially when I know them personally and know that they aren't even trying. There is no magic pill.

In the case of

[Blue]

Heres mine , im under control with the meds but i do still drink ,

metformin = diabettes
rozaglitizone= diabettes
aspirin = blood thinning
GTN spray = Angina
losarten = blood pressure (hypertension)
zimverstatin = cholesterol
omeprozole = digestive
sylitapram = depression

Geez Eric, thats awful. Have you ever looked at alternative medicine or do they allow that over there?

Remember the hundred stories I could tell? Mine is one of them. My depression and stress led to a host of other maladies. I was diagnosed with acid reflux, Barretts esophagus(it was nasty looking in the pics:(), Arythmia to the point my heart would sometimes stop long enough for me to lose conciousness, irritable bowel syndrome(this is what they call it when they have no idea what is wrong with you) and my knees have Arthritis BAD. I slipped at work a few years ago and was disabled for couple years while they tried injections of something new at the time(didn't work) and pills that made my face and tongue go numb and swell. Point is that after a few years of tossing the scrips and sticking to natural cures, I'm wayyyy better. Its not that I didn't give the western docs a chance. For over ten years I lived with no good results, and by that I mean CURED and spent thousands and thousands of unneccessary dollars.

Its a hard leap to make, I know it, but for me it was worth it. I am so much better now than before its just amazing.

Know what the doctors told me when I went back for a followup one year after dumping all thier treatments for the Barretts and the bowel probs? I was misdiagnosed!! Uh-huh, those scope pics of my esophagus must have been an illusion!!

That was over four years ago. I eat and drink whatever I want whenever I want, without crapping fire or vomiting acid, problem solved.;)

[tankie]

Geez Eric, thats awful. Have you ever looked at alternative medicine or do they allow that over there?

Remember the hundred stories I could tell? Mine is one of them. My depression and stress led to a host of other maladies. I was diagnosed with acid reflux, Barretts esophagus(it was nasty looking in the pics:(), Arythmia to the point my heart would sometimes stop long enough for me to lose conciousness, irritable bowel syndrome(this is what they call it when they have no idea what is wrong with you) and my knees have Arthritis BAD. I slipped at work a few years ago and was disabled for couple years while they tried injections of something new at the time(didn't work) and pills that made my face and tongue go numb and swell. Point is that after a few years of tossing the scrips and sticking to natural cures, I'm wayyyy better. Its not that I didn't give the western docs a chance. For over ten years I lived with no good results, and by that I mean CURED and spent thousands and thousands of unneccessary dollars.

Its a hard leap to make, I know it, but for me it was worth it. I am so much better now than before its just amazing.

Know what the doctors told me when I went back for a followup one year after dumping all thier treatments for the Barretts and the bowel probs? I was misdiagnosed!! Uh-huh, those scope pics of my esophagus must have been an illusion!!

That was over four years ago. I eat and drink whatever I want whenever I want, without crapping fire or vomiting acid, problem solved.;)

Well Eric , the fact that i am diabettic means all meds are free in the U/K so thats a blessing , i have not as yet looked at alternatives , i take the advice of my GP and heart specialists , BUT , as i stated ,my "probs" are mostly under control , there is good evidence that the meds are working on me although as we know there is no cure (diabettes ) and all it causes , ie more heart problems , kidney and liver also , lifes a bitch huh . .:(

[Blue]

Well Eric , the fact that i am diabettic means all meds are free in the U/K so thats a blessing , i have not as yet looked at alternatives , i take the advice of my GP and heart specialists , BUT , as i stated ,my "probs" are mostly under control , there is good evidence that the meds are working on me although as we know there is no cure (diabettes ) and all it causes , ie more heart problems , kidney and liver also , lifes a bitch huh . .:(

Thats what a western Doctor will tell you. Many of them will also tell you there is no cure for cancer.

I simply refused to accept thier answer.;)

[tankie]

Thats what a western Doctor will tell you. Many of them will also tell you there is no cure for cancer.

I simply refused to accept thier answer.;)

Do you know of a cure ? as i will surely try it . But having said that , when i lost a lot of weight the control became better and the metformin was reduced from 6 a day to 4 ;)

[astralis]

eric,

Do you know of a cure ? as i will surely try it . But having said that , when i lost a lot of weight the control became better and the metformin was reduced from 6 a day to 4

try low glycemic index foods. fortunately for you, beer and wine are considered low glycemic too

pretty much avoid spikes in blood sugar; that helps control diabetes, reduces inflammation (angina/hypertension/cholesterol), and makes digestion easier. in short, all of your problems in one.

[tankie]

eric,



try low glycemic index foods. fortunately for you, beer and wine are considered low glycemic too

pretty much avoid spikes in blood sugar; that helps control diabetes, reduces inflammation (angina/hypertension/cholesterol), and makes digestion easier. in short, all of your problems in one.

Cheers mate , a good link , i like the bit about the wine tho ;) i do eat healthily ,the dietician has given me lists of good and bad foods , thing is i like a few of the bad ones

[Prof]

I look at it like anything else. Some folks need religion to give them strength, some need other measures. Some just can't cope on thier own. What do you do when the drugs become unavailable? I chose against drugs, psycho-therapy and suicide because I figured if I was strong enough to do the things that give me pause now, then I must be strong enough to deal with them years later.

IMO, medicated the rest of your life is no way to live. If they need a little to get over a rough spot, then OK. I use alcohol sometimes just to sleep. Its a drug, I'm not proud of it, though I do enjoy the taste of beer and some fine whiskey at times.

We are not dogging anyone for thier choice of meds for thier cure, just want them to know that there are other ways to deal with thier problems that don't leave you in a fog or otherwise artificially propped up.

Chogy:

As a long-term medical guy (albeit in cardiology) & an ex-corpsman I appreciate your opinion, agree that it ought to be a standard approach & I ought to prefer it, but I don't. I find Sniper's argument more compelling. I've seen it work, & work well, for one thing. For another, even if it might not make the cut statistically, & even if it's not suited to everyone, it's the right approach.

I know that I'm talking about personal ethics & morality, but I'm just speaking personally here. About an opinion, which is all an ethical judgement can ever be unless you're carrying around a celestial umpire with you. So bear with me.

I prefer Sniper's attitude (& Jesus, SapperSgt's) because it's right. Not correct, necessarily, but a preferred moral pathway. I hope I have the gumption if it's called for.

Prof

[astralis]

eric (7th),

Thats what a western Doctor will tell you. Many of them will also tell you there is no cure for cancer.

I simply refused to accept thier answer.

speaking as an organic/natural foods/integrative medicine advocate, i think it is good to realize there are limits to what both approaches have to offer. natural foods play a GREAT role in keeping up health and alleviating chronic illnesses-- they don't do as well in dealing with acute-serious illnesses.

in tankie's case, his goal should be to live a lifestyle that will allow him to reduce the number of meds needed. i'd be more wary of trying to eliminate them altogether. integrative medicine is a big hit in asia, because it's about bringing the best of both worlds together. (also a new, exciting field-- finding out which combos build on each other, and which combos are poisonous...)

[astralis]

i think in the case of PTSD it is much the same way; ie for less serious cases, finding psychological releases (fishing, bikes, hanging out/chatting with buddies) will usually be of greatest help.

for the most serious cases, though, it seems pretty clear that there's been a bad, long-term change in brain chemistry-- that's when there's a real role for drugs and medical alternatives.

[tankie]

eric (7th),



speaking as an organic/natural foods/integrative medicine advocate, i think it is good to realize there are limits to what both approaches have to offer. natural foods play a GREAT role in keeping up health and alleviating chronic illnesses-- they don't do as well in dealing with acute-serious illnesses.

in tankie's case, his goal should be to live a lifestyle that will allow him to reduce the number of meds needed. i'd be more wary of trying to eliminate them altogether. integrative medicine is a big hit in asia, because it's about bringing the best of both worlds together. (also a new, exciting field-- finding out which combos build on each other, and which combos are poisonous...)

;);)

[Prof]

Chogy:

As a long-term medical guy (albeit in cardiology) & an ex-corpsman I appreciate your opinion, agree that it ought to be a standard approach & I ought to prefer it, but I don't. I find Sniper's argument more compelling. I've seen it work, & work well, for one thing. For another, even if it might not make the cut statistically, & even if it's not suited to everyone, it's the right approach.

I know that I'm talking about personal ethics & morality, but I'm just speaking personally here. About an opinion, which is all an ethical judgement can ever be unless you're carrying around a celestial umpire with you. So bear with me.

I prefer Sniper's attitude (& Jesus, SapperSgt's) because it's right. Not correct, necessarily, but a preferred moral pathway. I hope I have the gumption if it's called for.

Prof

Oh. I'm not talking about alternative Medicine strategies here, although I don't have anything important against them. I'm just talking about attitude in the face of adversity.

Prof

[Capsoda]

Do you know of a cure ? as i will surely try it . But having said that , when i lost a lot of weight the control became better and the metformin was reduced from 6 a day to 4 ;)

Man, metformin keeps me on the trot to the john. That stuff tears my guts out. The VA wanted me to take it 3 times a day and I can barely tolerated half a tab 1 time a day.

try low glycemic index foods. fortunately for you, beer and wine are considered low glycemic too

My daughter was telling me about low glycemic foods. I was checking out that link to and I am going to try to get the wife to read it.

[Chogy]

There are often alternatives to prescription meds... and often not. Never forget that "herbals" in many cases are fully as dangerous (occasionally more so) than some standardized and tested prescriptions. Papaver Somniforum, of course, is the opium poppy, and consuming 5 or 6 pods of legitimate Somniforum poppy can kill an adult from morphine overdose.

Herbals and traditional folk medicine often work because there are powerful pharmacological compounds in them, in many cases, along with other components. In many other cases, it is pure placebo that effects the cure... or the body was destined to heal itself anyhow, and despite the prescription or the herbal, a cure results.

There is a wide and very useful range from willow bark to the most exotic synthetic medications, and I agree it is up to the individual to find what works. But I think so-called "big pharma" takes an unfair rap in many cases. These are the guys that gave us insulin, vaccines for polio, penecillin, retrovirals to beat HIV into submission, and many, many lifesaving drugs. I do agree that there are probably too many people on prescriptions. At the same time, there are people lured away from real medicines and talked into taking colloidal silver and crap like "coral calcium", ground tiger bone, or any number of snake-oil, worthless remedies.

Somewhere in that spectrum, it is up to the individual to find what works, and less in most cases is usually better. I am wide open to whatever works, in whatever form. My last thought is that what works for one, may not work for another, whether the cure is herbal or some expensive prescription. ;)