US moon landing a defeat for Soviet space programme

[xrough]

US moon landing a defeat for Soviet space programme


MOSCOW - The Soviet Union was forced to concede defeat to the United States 40 years ago when US astronaut Neil Armstrong landed on the moon, overshadowing earlier triumphs of the Soviet space programme.

The 1969 moon landing instantly became a signature achievement of American technical prowess, but in the Soviet Union its importance was played down by the authorities amid their Cold War rivalry with the United States.

Experts say Moscow's failure to carry out its own manned moon mission reflected the inability of its space programme to develop past early successes like the first satellite launch in 1957 and Yury Gagarin's spaceflight in 1961.

"The Americans' main goal was competition with the Soviets around the lunar programme. Their victory in this was undoubtedly a highly significant event in the contest between the two systems," said Russian space expert Igor Lisov.

"Unfortunately we underestimated the Americans, we began too late and with insufficient resources," said Lisov, editor of Cosmonautics News, a specialist journal on space exploration.

Problems with the Soviet space programme included overly ambitious technical goals and the "baroque" management of subcontractors, said Jacques Blamont, an advisor to the head of the French government space agency CNES.

But the main problem was "a battle of managers which was never settled at the political level," Blamont said.

The Soviets "did not really have a strategic national direction" and had two duelling conceptions of their lunar programme, one that envisioned a moon landing and one that involved sending a probe around the moon, he said.

Moscow's failure to reach the moon was compounded by troubles with its "planetary" programme aimed at exploring Mars and Venus, which suffered a series of failures, Blamont said.

However ordinary Soviet citizens knew little about the failures, which were hushed up by the authorities, even as state propaganda glorified Gagarin and other cosmonauts, turning them into living legends.

"Information was very scarce," said Konstantin Indukayev, the director of a small precision optics laboratory in Moscow, who was 27 years old at the time of the moon landing.

Armstrong's first steps on the moon were not censored, but the authorities clearly tried to play down their significance and most Soviet citizens did not grasp the magnitude of the event, Indukayev recalled.

"It did not make big headlines, you could only find it on page two of newspapers," he said.

"People who had an education and were interested in space understood very well that it was a big event."

Four decades later, few Russians will be celebrating the anniversary of the moon landing, said Lisov, the editor of Cosmonautics News.

"Today few people are interested in this," he said. Of them, "there are two camps: those who still think we lost and that this is sad, and those who seek consolation in the theory that the Americans were never on the moon."

Supporters of the "moon hoax" conspiracy theory say that the 1969 landing was an elaborate fraud and that all the photographs and film footage of Armstrong's footsteps on the moon were faked.

The theory has a following in the United States and elsewhere, but it is especially popular in Russia, where adherents have created numerous websites and even television documentaries to promote their ideas.

"There are such people and they are rather numerous," admitted Lisov.

[TopHatter]

Four decades later, few Russians will be celebrating the anniversary of the moon landing, said Lisov, the editor of Cosmonautics News.

"Today few people are interested in this," he said. Of them, "there are two camps: those who still think we lost and that this is sad, and those who seek consolation in the theory that the Americans were never on the moon."

Supporters of the "moon hoax" conspiracy theory say that the 1969 landing was an elaborate fraud and that all the photographs and film footage of Armstrong's footsteps on the moon were faked.

The theory has a following in the United States and elsewhere, but it is especially popular in Russia, where adherents have created numerous websites and even television documentaries to promote their ideas.

"There are such people and they are rather numerous," admitted Lisov.

Can't hardly blame the many Russians out there for thinking all of that.

For Russian moon-hoaxers to accept the truth of July 20, 1969 (and November 19, 1969 and February 9, 1971 and August 7, 1971 and April 27, 1972 and December 11, 1972), they would be accepting the fact that, despite the flashy firsts of the Soviet space program, the Soviet Union wasn't really as far ahead as they'd been lead to believe.

I have to admit though, I wonder what - if anything - Russian moon-hoaxers think about April 14, 1970 and the subsequent events. Were those events faked as well?

Finally, and this is the most pitiable reason why I don't really blame Russian moon-hoaxers for their beliefs: Their government lied to them on a daily basis about...well, everything. Including the invincibility of the Soviet space program, as it turns out.

So why not assume that the American government behaves in exactly the same fashion?

[Chogy]

There is a new moon orbiter that has perhaps already been launched that has optics capable of resolving the landing sites of the various apollo missions. There, they should be able to see (with perfect clarity) the lower stage of the LEM, the lunar rovers on later missions, and all the sundries left behind when the astronauts departed. Hopefully that will put to rest the "fake moon landing" conspiracies forever.

There's also those pesky mirrors placed on the moon that reflect earth-based lasers for range-finding.

[Dreadnought]

Nasa has previously released photos of the moon landing sites as well as a few other things.;)

[Chogy]

Really? I was not aware. Photos from space, or from the Earth?

I guess it will never be put to rest until some other country lands on the Moon and finds the stuff, or photographs it from lunar orbit. Anything from NASA could be a photoshop, right?

[Rumrunner]

There's also those pesky mirrors placed on the moon that reflect earth-based lasers for range-finding.

Yeah, there's that and all the rocks and stuff. Clearly all faked.
:P

[Dreadnought]

One pic of the landing site.;) More on NASA's website.

Two days before the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing, the space agency releases the photographs of astronaut work sites. The pictures could aid future moon colonists.
By John Johnson Jr.
July 18, 2009
With the 40th anniversary of the Apollo 11 landing just two days away, NASA on Friday released the sharpest images ever taken of astronaut work sites on the moon, showing hardware and soil disturbances left behind by the 12 Americans who visited the lunar surface between 1969 and 1972.

The images, taken over the last few weeks by cameras aboard the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, include some of the 10-foot-tall landing structure called the descent stage. It was left behind when the astronauts returned home and is seen casting long shadows over the pale surface of the moon.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1

[omon]

i don't remember anyone in ussr thinking moon landing were fake, soviet media never desputed the fact us landed for real, they didn't talk about it a lot, but few times it was mentioned, faking wasn't even mentioned.
as for Soviet Union wasn't really as far ahead as they'd been lead to believe. lol.
1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5
1970: First samples automatically returned to Earth from another body, Luna 16
1970: First robotic space rover, Lunokhod 1
1970: First data received from the surface of another planet (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1
1971: First probe to orbit another planet (Mars), first probe to reach surface of Mars, Mars 2
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, first photos from surface of Venus, Venera 9
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station)
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7)
1986: First permanently manned space station, Mir, which orbited the Earth from 1986 until 2001
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of TM-4 - Mir

[gunnut]

For Russian moon-hoaxers to accept the truth of July 20, 1969 (and November 19, 1969 and February 9, 1971 and August 7, 1971 and April 27, 1972 and December 11, 1972), they would be accepting the fact that, despite the flashy firsts of the Soviet space program, the Soviet Union wasn't really as far ahead as they'd been lead to believe.

I have to admit though, I wonder what - if anything - Russian moon-hoaxers think about April 14, 1970 and the subsequent events. Were those events faked as well?

That one is easy. Once you had the studio all set up, it was easy to make sequels. :))

[TopHatter]

i don't remember anyone in ussr thinking moon landing were fake, soviet media never desputed the fact us landed for real, they didn't talk about it a lot, but few times it was mentioned, faking wasn't even mentioned.
as for Soviet Union wasn't really as far ahead as they'd been lead to believe. lol.
1957: First intercontinental ballistic missile, the R-7 Semyorka
1957: First satellite, Sputnik 1
1957: First animal to enter Earth orbit, the dog Laika on Sputnik 2
1959: First firing of a rocket in Earth orbit, first man-made object to escape Earth's orbit, Luna 1
1959: First data communications, or telemetry, to and from outer space, Luna 1.
1959: First man-made object to pass near the Moon, first man-made object in Solar orbit, Luna 1
1959: First probe to impact the Moon, Luna 2
1959: First images of the moon's far side, Luna 3
1960: First animals to safely return from Earth orbit, the dogs Belka and Strelka on Sputnik 5.
1960: First probe launched to Mars, Marsnik 1
1961: First probe launched to Venus, Venera 1
1961: First person in space (International definition) and in Earth orbit, Yuri Gagarin on Vostok 1, Vostok programme
1961: First person to spend over a day in space Gherman Titov, Vostok 2 (also first person to sleep in space).
1962: First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6
1964: First multi-man crew (3), Voskhod 1
1965: First EVA, by Aleksei Leonov, Voskhod 2
1965: First probe to hit another planet (Venus), Venera 3
1966: First probe to make a soft landing on and transmit from the surface of the moon, Luna 9
1966: First probe in lunar orbit, Luna 10
1967: First unmanned rendezvous and docking, Cosmos 186/Cosmos 188. (Until 2006, this had remained the only major space achievement that the US had not duplicated.)
1969: First docking between two manned craft in Earth orbit and exchange of crews, Soyuz 4 and Soyuz 5
1970: First samples automatically returned to Earth from another body, Luna 16
1970: First robotic space rover, Lunokhod 1
1970: First data received from the surface of another planet (Venus), Venera 7
1971: First space station, Salyut 1
1971: First probe to orbit another planet (Mars), first probe to reach surface of Mars, Mars 2
1975: First probe to orbit Venus, first photos from surface of Venus, Venera 9
1984: First woman to walk in space, Svetlana Savitskaya (Salyut 7 space station)
1986: First crew to visit two separate space stations (Mir and Salyut 7)
1986: First permanently manned space station, Mir, which orbited the Earth from 1986 until 2001
1987: First crew to spend over one year in space, Vladimir Titov and Musa Manarov on board of TM-4 - Mir

Nobody said that the Soviet space program wasn't advanced and successful.

But with all those accomplishments, you'd have thought that "First Manned Landing On The Moon" would be in there, big and bold.

But it's not.

Because the Soviet space program was not as advanced as people had been led to be believe.

Furthermore, there should be several asterisks after some of those accomplishments.

First and foremost is that Yuri Gagarin's flight, while highly laudable, was a fraud by the definition of the records books, which states that a person must be launched and landed in the same space craft.

Gagarin did only one of those.

First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4. Again, laudable, but it was highly implied, if not outright claimed, that Vostok 3 and 4 maneuvered together to make the rendezvous. They had not. They merely whizzed by each other with no actual maneuvering done. Laudable, but like pretty much everything in the Soviet Union, far from the truth.

1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6. Laudable, especially as she was 10 years younger than the American Mercury astronauts. But like so many other things in the Soviet Union, a publicity stunt. Which is why it took another 19 years before another Soviet female flew in space.

I can on and on forever, but the bottom line is that Soviet space program, for all of it's laudable feats, firsts and stunts, failed to put a man on the moon before the turtle-like Americans, even with the huge setback of Apollo 1,

[omon]

Nobody said that the Soviet space program wasn't advanced and successful.

But with all those accomplishments, you'd have thought that "First Manned Landing On The Moon" would be in there, big and bold.

But it's not.

Because the Soviet space program was not as advanced as people had been led to be believe.

Furthermore, there should be several asterisks after some of those accomplishments.

First and foremost is that Yuri Gagarin's flight, while highly laudable, was a fraud by the definition of the records books, which states that a person must be launched and landed in the same space craft.

Gagarin did only one of those.

First dual manned spaceflight and approach, Vostok 3 and Vostok 4. Again, laudable, but it was highly implied, if not outright claimed, that Vostok 3 and 4 maneuvered together to make the rendezvous. They had not. They merely whizzed by each other with no actual maneuvering done. Laudable, but like pretty much everything in the Soviet Union, far from the truth.

1963: First woman in space, Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6. Laudable, especially as she was 10 years younger than the American Mercury astronauts. But like so many other things in the Soviet Union, a publicity stunt. Which is why it took another 19 years before another Soviet female flew in space.

I can on and on forever, but the bottom line is that Soviet space program, for all of it's laudable feats, firsts and stunts, failed to put a man on the moon before the turtle-like Americans, even with the huge setback of Apollo 1,

lol, i,m laughing already,
becuse ussr never send a person to the moon, its programm laughable???
what is so important with a man on the moon??? ussr had robot there 10 years before, they desided to spend money someplace else.

what do you mean gagarin was a fraud??? did he change spaceships in orbit??

Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6. Laudable, especially as she was 10 years younger than the American Mercury astronauts.
so???? does the age make the difference? she did go to space.

oops, just noticed laudable is not the same as laughable. my bad. there are still few english words i've never seen before, laudable is one of them, who would've tought, lol.

i'm sure there are few lies in both space programms, but i don't think soviet space programm was in any way inferiour to us.

[TopHatter]

lol, i,m laughing already,
becuse ussr never send a person to the moon, its programm laughable???
what is so important with a man on the moon???

laugh·able \ˈla-fə-bəl, ˈlä-\ adjective

Of a kind to provoke laughter or sometimes derision


laud·able \ˈlȯ-də-bəl\ adjective

Worthy of praise

ussr had robot there 10 years before, they desided to spend money someplace else.

OK, now that assertion is LAUGHABLE.

Got any other jokes you'd like to share? The USSR was beyond desperate to make it to the moon ahead of the Americans. The moon was the brass ring for the space race. The ultimate stunt for a space program that was full of them. The only reason they gave up their moon shot was because the Americans had landed first.

To claim otherwise is a slanderous insult to the efforts of the Soviet scientists and engineers who worked themselves into the ground on the Soviet moon program.

what do you mean gagarin was a fraud??? did he change spaceships in orbit??

Gagarin was no fraud, nor did I say he was. One glaring detail of his flight, on the other hand, was less than truthful.

And the fact that you don't know the truth of it doesn't surprise me in the least.

A simple look at Wiki tells the truth:

The FAI rules in 1961 required that a pilot must land with the spacecraft to be considered an official spaceflight for the FAI record books.

At the time, the Soviet Union insisted that Gagarin had landed with the Vostok and the FAI certified the flight.

Years later, it was revealed that Gagarin had ejected and landed separately from the Vostok descent module.

Oops. The Soviet Union lied again. Big surprise.

Valentina Tereshkova, Vostok 6. Laudable, especially as she was 10 years younger than the American Mercury astronauts.
so???? does the age make the difference? she did go to space.

The fact that someone far younger went to into space is a testament to the trust and faith placed in them.

In other words, it's a compliment.

oops, just noticed laudable is not the same as laughable. my bad. there are still few english words i've never seen before, laudable is one of them, who would've tought, lol.

So...the thought of re-writing your post never occurred to you?

i'm sure there are few lies in both space programms

No comparison. None whatsoever. NASA hung it's dirty laundry out for all to see. It's called an open society with a free press.

As opposed to a totalitarian police state with no press worthy of the name.

but i don't think soviet space programm was in any way inferiour to us.

And once again, I never once said that the Soviet space program was "inferior" or anything even remotely resembling that, so please stop putting words in my mouth.

The truth of that matter is, once the Soviets stopped trying to pull off flashy stunts and actually got down to a serious goal-oriented space program, they pulled ahead of the Americans in several ways: The Mir space station, the Soyuz rocket and the Buran shuttle, to name a few.

By the way, I've asked you this before: Please find a spell-checker to use. Your posts are extremely difficult to read.

[omon]

according to nasa
April 12 was already a huge day in space history twenty years before the launch of the first shuttle mission. On that day in 1961, Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin (left, on the way to the launch pad) became the first human in space, making a 108-minute orbital flight in his Vostok 1 spacecraft. Newspapers like The Huntsville Times (right) trumpeted Gagarin's accomplishment.
NASA - Yuri Gagarin: First Man in Space

again according to nasa, ussr continued unmaned moon program until 1976.
Soviet Missions to the Moon

[TopHatter]

according to nasa
On that day in 1961, Russian cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin (left, on the way to the launch pad) became the first human in space, making a 108-minute orbital flight in his Vostok 1 spacecraft. Newspapers like The Huntsville Times (right) trumpeted Gagarin's accomplishment.

No one is denying, least of all me, that Gagarin flew in space.

But the bottom line is that he and his spacecraft were unable to return to Earth together.

Once again, my point is that the Soviet space program was not as advanced as the world had been lead to believe.

again according to nasa, ussr continued unmaned moon program until 1976.
Soviet Missions to the Moon

OK...so they continued unmanned moon missions.

So what? Just like Gagarin's spaceflight, that was never in dispute.

We're talking about manned moon missions. Something the Soviets worked feverishly to accomplish but failed to surpass the Americans, and quietly dropped the whole thing when it became apparent that the technological hurdles were too great for them to overcome...particularly when it was suddenly pointless to do so.

I hate to say this but your debating skills need sharpening. You need to respond to the issues that have been raised or commented on. Not invent your own out of thin air.

[kuku]

Amazing, its like watching two highschool enemies fight it out in the retirement home.