Ottawa says no to extending Afghan mission past 2011.

[Canmoore]

CTV.ca | Canada shoots down extension of Afghan mission

Seeing as how the White House is asking us to stay, and not the Europeans. Canada has gained prestige, and influence among our allies by undertaking the daunting, but salient mission in Kandahar province.

Canada was able to hold the Line in and around Kandahar, during the dangerous days of 2006 and 2007. When the taliban was at there strongest. And whith European allies who generally wouldn’t come to help, and with the British pinned down in neighbouring Helmand province, and the Americans stretched thin everywhere else.

Another sign that the Canadian Forces have gained prestige among our US counterparts is the formation of the "Manley Battalion", or 2-2. Which is named after the 2008 Manley Report in Canada, which stated that the CF in Afghanistan needs assistance from her allies.

The Pentagon offered the 2nd Infantry of the US Army, which was comdined with 2nd Battalion of the Canadian Forces. Which is basically US soldiers, and Canadian Guns. This is the first time in Afghanistan, that an American unit has been under Canadian command for long period of time.

Since the formation of 2-2, the enemy has lost any momentum they had along the vital Highway 1 corridor. An outpost has been established on the boundary between Maywand and Zharey districts, whose presence has seriously interfered with the flow of taliban weapons and personnel into the Canadian and Afghan operating areas, so much so that insurgent cells constantly complain to their superiors in Pakistan about their lack of resources.

All of these have helped to allow the local governments to grow, and reconstruction teams to help rebuild the local infrastructure.

No matter what however, the Canadian Forces need to end operations, our forces need a rest. We have doing far more than our part, and it is time that one of our other allies steps up to the plate.

We have broken the land, now it is up to someone else to cultivate it.

[Mobbme]

There's a lot more marines and US soldiers in Afghanistan right now, I think Canada should stay and be a part of that. They don't have to be 100% committed, but have some troops there. Its really 2012, because the date is Dec of 2011 so you can argue we are there until the end of 2011, not before 2011.

If we had treated this war as an occupation, there would've been red-white-(blue) flags all over Afghanistan; they're lucky we're only after the bad guys.

[Officer of Engineers]

We can't stay even if we want to. Our machines have reached their end.

[JAD_333]

Is that to say that Canada is thin on machines for its own defense or for expeditionary missions? How much is the state of Canada's overall defense impacted by its Afghanistan mission?

[Officer of Engineers]

In essence, the army is wiped out. The LAV-IIIs are done and we have to resort to the M113s and being the older machines that they are, they won't last beyond 2011.

Land Force already have the programs in place to strip down and rebuild these machines but we can't do it while we commit them to Afghanistan.

If Ottawa had said that we won't be coming home in 2011 when the decision was made in 2008, Land Force would not have made these decisions but we would have stick and glue these vehicles together (much like we have done in UNPROFOR) to keep the mission going. But since Ottawa had made the announcement and given our marching orders, the Army acted accordingly and planned to start rebuilding our mechanized force starting in 2011.

JAD, by 2011, the CF would have spent to 30 years constantly in a combat theatre with a one year break after Kosovo. This army needs to rebuild.

[astralis]

col yu,

forgive my ignorance re: CF, but the opstempo you mention really surprises me. are you guys doing 1 home, 1 ready to deploy, 1 in theater?

[Officer of Engineers]

In theory, yes. The battalions are on that rotation but the companies are anything of the sort. 3rd Battalion will grab a company from 2nd battalion to flush themselves out when on theatre deployment. That company from 2nd battalion will stay on when 2nd Bn rotates in.

[Tarek Morgen]

Have the last years changed anything about their preference for wheeled vehicles over tracked ones? Are they considering the PSO or Urban combat kit/upgrade for their new tanks?

[JAD_333]

In essence, the army is wiped out. The LAV-IIIs are done and we have to resort to the M113s and being the older machines that they are, they won't last beyond 2011.

Land Force already have the programs in place to strip down and rebuild these machines but we can't do it while we commit them to Afghanistan.

If Ottawa had said that we won't be coming home in 2011 when the decision was made in 2008, Land Force would not have made these decisions but we would have stick and glue these vehicles together (much like we have done in UNPROFOR) to keep the mission going. But since Ottawa had made the announcement and given our marching orders, the Army acted accordingly and planned to start rebuilding our mechanized force starting in 2011.

JAD, by 2011, the CF would have spent to 30 years constantly in a combat theatre with a one year break after Kosovo. This army needs to rebuild.

We can all respect Canada's long readiness to contribute forces to UN and NATO missions.

Just a couple of questions:

Is the willingness there to continue in Afghanistan notwithstanding material concerns? If so, would material assistance from the US be welcomed?

I am not well enough versed on the subtleties of our relationship with Ottawa, but I can see that that mght run counter to political feelings up your way. There may also be practical considerations of which I am also not aware.

[Officer of Engineers]

Is the willingness there to continue in Afghanistan notwithstanding material concerns? If so, would material assistance from the US be welcomed?

At this point, no. The army has made their refit plans. To shift men and material again back to theatre would throw the whole mid-life upgrade programs out of whack.

I am not well enough versed on the subtleties of our relationship with Ottawa, but I can see that that mght run counter to political feelings up your way. There may also be practical considerations of which I am also not aware.

The military-to-military relationship is that the navy and the AF might take up some of the slack. CF-18s are being considered to be deploy there since they are under less strain than the army. But as far as the army is concerned, we won't be finished licking our wounds until at least 2013.

[JAD_333]

But as far as the army is concerned, we won't be finished licking our wounds until at least 2013.

Suppose 2013 rolls around and help is still needed in Afghanistan, what are the chances Canada will rejoin the effort?

Will Canada still have a non-combatent role over there after 2011?

After this, I promise, no more questions?:))

[Canmoore]

JAD, I suspect that post 2011. Canada's contribution will be a Naval and Airforce element. And a small Land Force element to provide protection to reconstruction teams. After 2011, I suspect that the focus for our forces will shift from a pure combat role, to one of assistance to the Afghanis, and supporting our efforts to do so.

[JAD_333]

It would seem odd if Canada had no presense at all. Its contribution up to now has been topnotch, and there are many other way to contribute.

[Officer of Engineers]

Suppose 2013 rolls around and help is still needed in Afghanistan, what are the chances Canada will rejoin the effort?

High. Ottawa has never shied from gaining international prestige with the blood of her soldiers.

However, any mission the CF will assume must meet two criterias. It has to be visible and it has to be viable. If 2013 comes around and the US is running away, don't expect the CF to jump in. However, if you need the CF to tip the edge, the Canadians will jump in with no hesitation.

Recall what happenned with the ISAF initially refused a Canadian Battle Group in 2001 and asked for 300 engineers instead. The CF, as opposed to Ottawa, told the ISAF that you take the battle group or you take nothing.

The American 187th Infantry Regiment, once learned the availbaility of an entire Canadian Battle Group took them before the ISAF changed their minds.

Will Canada still have a non-combatent role over there after 2011?

There is still a combat role but at the company level. We are not stopping the PRTs and the RCMP will continue to train the ANP and the CF is still committed to training the ANA.

[JAD_333]

Col:

Thanks for the short course on Canada's commitment. I for one have always felt comfortable with Canada on our northern border, notwithstanding the occasional trade dispute and polticial difference of opinion. One needs good friends in this topsy turvy world.