Thailand in Turmoil

[kuku]

This is an encouraging way to help solve the insurgency problem in S Thailand. It'll not be solved by military forces.

'Three Es' to end insurgency
Focus on education, employment and economy to bring peace to Thai south

Well if they are able to provide these three E's, all of their problems will be solved.

In fact we(humans) could solve a lot of the our problems with these three E's and no one needs a nobel laureate to figure that out.

So why so much trouble in the world?

So is flying planes into buildings and blowing up tube trains and buses mate , the point im making is that people are sick to death of those moronic bastards and are taking no more , govts that do sod all but appease them ,, stiff upper lip my arse , wipe the bastards out

I am afraid (i really am) that this is exactly what is going to happen in many places around the world, and all it will do is kill innocent people while the real a holes will survive.

[tankie]

Well if they are able to provide these three E's, all of their problems will be solved.

In fact we(humans) could solve a lot of the our problems with these three E's and no one needs a nobel laureate to figure that out.

So why so much trouble in the world?

I am afraid (i really am) that this is exactly what is going to happen in many places around the world, and all it will do is kill innocent people while the real a holes will survive.

How true .:(

[Bigfella]

So is flying planes into buildings and blowing up tube trains and buses mate , the point im making is that people are sick to death of those moronic bastards and are taking no more , govts that do sod all but appease them ,, stiff upper lip my arse , wipe the bastards out

Its not about stiff upper lip mate, its about using our heads. It isn't about appeasing terrorists, its about taking away their support base & leaving them high & dry. I understand the frustration, but I also understand that by giving in to it we do exactly what they want us to. Before we can kill them we have to isolate them

Also remember that the people in that mosque were likely no more guilty of anything than the people in the twin towers. Kuku is on the money, violence out of anger just kills the wrong people & helps the wrong people.

[tankie]

Its not about stiff upper lip mate, its about using our heads. It isn't about appeasing terrorists, its about taking away their support base & leaving them high & dry. I understand the frustration, but I also understand that by giving in to it we do exactly what they want us to. Before we can kill them we have to isolate them

Also remember that the people in that mosque were likely no more guilty of anything than the people in the twin towers. Kuku is on the money, violence out of anger just kills the wrong people & helps the wrong people.

Yes B\F i take your point , but maybe they were as guilty as sin and deserved it . But im glad to see the ordinary man in the street sticking up against them and fighting back , no doubt there will be retaliation and that will escalate , but how to stop them its been going on for donkies years and at last someone is playing by their rules and dishing it back , if they were innocent , well maybe the ordinary muslim law abiding ones may turn against the crap ones and get rid of them , i certainly hope so

From a frustrated tankie ;)

[Bigfella]

Latest reports

Tankie,

Latest reports suggest that the gunmen you were cheering were actually Islamic Radicals attacking moderate muslims who don't share their vision of a revolutionary Wahabi Caliphate. More innocent victims.

As more than one person has observed, this is an international Islamic civil war into which we waded before we even knew it was happening. Now most sides use the West for their own ends. One lot tries to get us to use our momey & military power to help them. The other tries to get us to misuse our military power to help them. (most just want everyone to leave them the hell alone, but no one listens to them).

[tankie]

Tankie,

Latest reports suggest that the gunmen you were cheering were actually Islamic Radicals attacking moderate muslims who don't share their vision of a revolutionary Wahabi Caliphate. More innocent victims.

As more than one person has observed, this is an international Islamic civil war into which we waded before we even knew it was happening. Now most sides use the West for their own ends. One lot tries to get us to use our momey & military power to help them. The other tries to get us to misuse our military power to help them. (most just want everyone to leave them the hell alone, but no one listens to them).

Ok have you a link to it B/F ref the attackers ?? i love the last line ,, most of us want them to leave the rest of the world alone ,and i will say this ,if it wasnt thai people and it was the idiots , then its a totaly diffo ball game ,all in the name of bloody religeon

[Merlin]

It is too early to know for sure who are the attackers at this S Thailand Mosque. This Reuters news source suspect they are likely the 'separatist or ethno-nationalist', although in other violent incidents, 'extrajudicial killings by security forces, and drug and mafia-related murders are rife'.

Q+A-Thailand's shadowy southern insurgency

BANGKOK June 9 (Reuters) - Thailand's deep south has been hit by its worst violence in months, culminating in Monday's bloody attack on a mosque where gunmen killed 10 Muslims as they prayed.

Nineteen people have been killed and 40 injured since Friday in three predominately Muslim provinces near the Malaysian border where nearly 3,500 people have died in violence since 2004. [ID:nL81020018]

Despite more than 30,000 troops in the region, Thailand is no closer to quelling a shadowy insurgency.

WHO IS BEHIND THE VIOLENCE?

No credible group has claimed responsibility for any of the attacks, but analysts say the rebels' motivation is most likely separatist or ethno-nationalist.

The provinces of Yala, Narathiwat and Pattani were once an independent Malay-Muslim sultanate annexed by Buddhist Thailand a century ago.

Southern Muslims have resisted policies of assimilation by successive Thai governments. Many feel their language, culture and ethnicity is not properly recognised by Thais.

Authorities usually blame insurgents for the violence but rights groups have documented extrajudicial killings by security forces, and drug and mafia-related murders are rife. ...

[tankie]

Thanks Merlin

[Merlin]

These revenge killings in S Thailand are still happening.

Buddhist shot dead as tensions mount in Thai south

YALA, Thailand, June 10 (Reuters) - A Buddhist construction worker was shot dead and two others wounded in Thailand's restive deep south on Wednesday as tensions escalated in the wake of a bloody attack on a mosque.

Police said four gunmen on motorcycles opened fire on labourers at a construction site, killing one woman and wounding two men in Yala, one of three violence-plagued provinces near the Malaysian border.

A note left at the scene said: "You kill our innocents, so we kill your people."

The shooting followed Monday's brazen attack on a mosque in Narathiwat, where 10 Muslims were killed and 12 wounded in one of the deadliest incidents this year in the deep south, where nearly 3,500 people have died in violence since 2004. ....

[tankie]

Apart from this comment ,,,no comment .

[Bigfella]

Ok have you a link to it B/F ref the attackers ?? i love the last line ,, most of us want them to leave the rest of the world alone ,and i will say this ,if it wasnt thai people and it was the idiots , then its a totaly diffo ball game ,all in the name of bloody religeon

Sorry Tankie, I was watching the news when I typed. Thanks to Merlin for supplying some more detailed info.

A few points from all this. First, in one sense it doesn't matter to me who did this. I'd feel the same way if it were a church or temple. The overwhelming majority of people in this world, muslims included, are effectively 'innocents'.

As I said, the only reason it matters to me who did it is the potential fallout in Thailand. Based on past experience & distrust some muslims will simply assume it was government related. If it wasn't that will hopefully limit the damage.

Second point: I probably should have thrown this in before, but the 'just want to be left alone' are actually the most important people in all this. The are the overwhelming majority and they are up for grabs. These are really the people we are all fighting over. They are the ones the rhetoric is aimed at, the aid etc. Groups like AQ are hoping that the mistakes of their enemies will push these people into supporting extremists where their own limited ability to persuade fails.

Final: I think there is a chance for a moment of insight here. Don't take this the wrong way, I wouldn't say it if I didn't respect you.

I understand your anger & I think I understand its roots. You have seen acts of terrorism by muslims at home & overseas. Terrible things. Perhaps you have seen other muslims rationalize & support these terrible acts. It has made you angry. Perhaps angry enough to cheer when a dozen (most likely innocent) muslims are slaughtered. How did I do?:)

Take a different perspective for a moment. Imagine that you are not Tankie but Tariq. Same age, same education, perhaps even ex-military. In some ways very similar. Chances are you live or have lived most of your life with few political freedoms. Chances are that for at least some of that time the government doing the oppressing was supported by a Western power (perhaps more than one). You have seen terrible things too. Things you consider terrorism. Things done by Western powers or their supporters. Acts that have taken many more muslim lives than any number of westerners killed by muslims. You have seen Westerners rationalize & support these acts. It has made you angry. Angry enough to cheer next time a sucide bomber attacks a 'western target'.

My point here is that the anger, however justifiable, is wrong. Good people on all sides of this can find reasons why it is acceptable to take extreme positions. Yet they are the very people who need to fight those temptations. The bad ones have already stopped. The more people who support or excuse the extremes the harder it will be to win this damned struggle & devote our collective energies to something more positive. Don't give in to the dark side Tankie.:)

[tankie]

Sorry Tankie, I was watching the news when I typed. Thanks to Merlin for supplying some more detailed info.

A few points from all this. First, in one sense it doesn't matter to me who did this. I'd feel the same way if it were a church or temple. The overwhelming majority of people in this world, muslims included, are effectively 'innocents'.

As I said, the only reason it matters to me who did it is the potential fallout in Thailand. Based on past experience & distrust some muslims will simply assume it was government related. If it wasn't that will hopefully limit the damage.

Second point: I probably should have thrown this in before, but the 'just want to be left alone' are actually the mostpeople in all this. The are the overwhelming majority and they are up for grabs. important These are really the people we are all fighting over. They are the ones the rhetoric is aimed at, the aid etc. Groups like AQ are hoping that the mistakes of their enemies will push these people into supporting extremists where their own limited ability to persuade fails.

Final: I think there is a chance for a moment of insight here. Don't take this the wrong way, I wouldn't say it if I didn't respect you.

I understand your anger & I think I understand its roots. You have seen acts of terrorism by muslims at home & overseas. Terrible things. Perhaps you have seen other muslims rationalize & support these terrible acts. It has made you angry. Perhaps angry enough to cheer when a dozen (most likely innocent) muslims are slaughtered. How did I do?:)

Take a different perspective for a moment. Imagine that you are not Tankie but Tariq. Same age, same education, perhaps even ex-military. In some ways very similar. Chances are you live or have lived most of your life with few political freedoms. Chances are that for at least some of that time the government doing the oppressing was supported by a Western power (perhaps more than one). You have seen terrible things too. Things you consider terrorism. Things done by Western powers or their supporters. Acts that have taken many more muslim lives than any number of westerners killed by muslims. You have seen Westerners rationalize & support these acts. It has made you angry. Angry enough to cheer next time a sucide bomber attacks a 'western target'.

My point here is that the anger, however justifiable, is wrong. Good people on all sides of this can find reasons why it is acceptable to take extreme positions. Yet they are the very people who need to fight those temptations. The bad ones have already stopped. The more people who support or excuse the extremes the harder it will be to win this damned struggle & devote our collective energies to something more positive. Don't give in to the dark side Tankie.:)

Hmm ok B/F i take your points , however i have put in bold in your post the points i will take up with you ,

1stly , its always the innocents or nearly always ? except when some of them have crawled out from under their stones and been caught ?these are the ones to be exterminated , and their followers know who and where they are ,,DEAL WITH THEM , or more innocents will be killed they who are in the firing line , thats why i get angry , they are soft targets , who are living there lives getting caught up in this terrorism , they are someones mothers / fathers / children / and they could have been mine , or yours , blown to bits

FOR WHAT END ,

I understand what you say B/F , and also i know it takes 2 to tango , ref western gov ? however IMO ,its time to stand up to these bastards and fight back , because the democratic free world does not want radicalising or Islam , some christians have converted i know , well if thats what they want and choose , well good for them , thats their choice , i choose neither of them i will stay an agnostic .The muslims killed in Thailand ,if they were innocents and just getting on with their lives,well as i have said they have my sympathies , when i read the story it implied that Thai people were getting there own back and i assumed that they had found out who were behind the killings of Thai,s , thats why i was :cheering: and i will cheer again if people around the world fight back and destroy those vermin .And i would hope that millons of ordinary Muslims would do the same.

2nd point

Guess what , i want to be left alone and so do millions of others , just to live our lives in peace and not have some lame brained preaching bastard getting numb headed no future suicide bombers to do their bidding , in the name of religeon .Religeon IMO ,its B/S .Yes B/F i get angry , very angry ,its justifiable anger .

However i will wait and see how Obamas speech will be taken by them .I dont think a blind bit of notice will be , they will see it as a weakness and and expoilation will be the end result methinks .

I also respect your point of view mate , was it not your PM , cant remember his name who said ,, if muslims want to live here ,then live by our rules , if not go to a country that supports your views , ie , sharia law , i was very impressed with that ,, then we get to the Archbishop of Canterbury who sprouts off about there could be a place for sharia law in The UK , why do these arseholes not keep out of it the fungus faced tosser , an appeaser , thats what he is , same as the spineless govt the UK has .

And then we come to the human rights malarky where we cant secretly investigate suspect terrorist , hahahahahaha well blow me down ,, oops no dont take that seriously Mr Hamza , its all appeasement mate , they dont want democracy , they use it tho , but dont want it , im all for the populace fighting back B/F .And i hope ( but wont hold my breath ) that the law abiding ordinary muslims are the ones who will break the stranglehold of radical Islamists , because if not , sadly , more innocent people will be killed .

PS you did good ;) but i have a Q for you , how do you think the issue should be challenged .

[tankie]

And this is sad news indeed RIP








ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- A moderate Muslim cleric who denounced suicide attacks as forbidden by Islam was killed Friday in a suicide attack on his mosque in Lahore, authorities said.


A Pakistani rescue worker works outside a damaged room of Jamia Naimia religious school.

Sarfraz Ahmed Naeemi was the first imam in Pakistan to issue a fatwa, or religious edict, against suicide attacks in Pakistan.

On Friday, a suicide bomber approached Naeemi as he left the Jamia Naimia Mosque and religious school. The bomber detonated his explosives, killing Naeemi and two others, police said. Another 10 people were wounded in the attack.

Naeemi had recently received death threats because of his opposition to the Taliban and his support of the current Pakistani military offensive against Taliban militants, his son told local television.

It was one of two mosque bombings in Pakistan on Friday, which has suffered a series of attacks in the wake of its ongoing military campaign

[Merlin]

This is sure to stir up the emotion for racial revenge violence.

Militants display severed head in Thai south

5 hrs ago YALA, Thailand (AFP) — Suspected Muslim militants decapitated a rubber-tapper and displayed his head on a stick outside his house in the latest violence in Thailand's troubled south, police said Monday.

The attack comes amid a recent spike in bloodshed in the restive Muslim-majority region bordering Malaysia, where more than 3,700 people have been killed during a bitter five-year insurgency.

Police said the 53-year-old victim's body was found with the head, hands and lower legs removed at his makeshift house on a rubber plantation in volatile Yala province on Monday morning.

The attackers stuck his head on a stick and put it in front of the building, they said.

In neighbouring Narathiwat province, a suspected insurgent gunman riding a motorcycle shot dead a Muslim man in front of his house, also on Monday, police said.

Meanwhile a bomb hidden inside a motorcycle and triggered by mobile phone exploded in Narathiwat on Sunday evening, injuring ten people who were shopping at a weekend market, they added.

Thailand's government is struggling to curb the sudden upsurge in violence in the south that erupted in recent weeks, including a bloody attack on a mosque in which gunmen shot dead 11 people during evening prayers.

The insurgents have in the past targeted both security forces and civilians -- Buddhist and Muslim alike -- ranging from teachers to rubber plantation workers. ....

[Merlin]

They are not familiar with multi-religious society and didn't handle this well since 2004. Now this seems to have past a point of no return.

Thailand attacks raise threat of sectarian war

5 hrs ago BANGKOK (AP) — Ten Muslim villagers killed by gunmen firing assault rifles into a mosque during evening prayers. A 53-year-old Buddhist rubber tapper shot, decapitated and limbs cut from his torso, his head impaled on a stick.

The circumstances and brutality of those attacks this month have revived fears that a long-running insurgency in Thailand's south could be evolving into a sectarian conflict pitting Buddhists against Muslims.

Islamic separatists ignited the insurgency in January 2004, sparking a cycle of army repression and rebellion that has left more than 3,500 people dead. Frustrated by their inability to curb the violence, Thai security forces have increasingly been arming civilian self-defense forces — almost all Buddhist — to protect villagers.

The proliferation of guns, many put in the poorly trained hands of parties with scores to settle, makes the situation extremely volatile.

The June 8 attack on the Al Furqan mosque in Narathiwat province's Joh-I-Rong district and its aftermath suggest such initiatives may have backfired.
..
With cold deliberation, five or six masked gunmen dressed in black poured fire into the mosque, which serves a community that had avoided the deadly tumult of recent years. ...

Many local Muslims believe the mosque massacre was revenge for the killing of a young Buddhist rubber plantation worker in a nearby district earlier that day....