History channel claiming Su-47 beats F-22?

[Versus]

One thing bugs me a lot about all this Raptor/JSF extravagance. If these aircraft can't be shoot down, than the market for them is very little. If the USAF engages let's say some third world country that purchased let's say 50 Sukhoi's and shoots them down without any losses, than actually the USAF has the damage (missiles fired, fuel consumption, pilot's paycheck, support on the ground pay's, spare parts although F22 is so super super that it rarely breaks down but still...). I think that the Lockheed actually shoot itself in the foot by making Raptor. Aircraft is a product and in order to profit products need to be consumed but I don't know, if they make these and no one of them gets shoot down there will be no need for a new aircraft's and the existing ones will cost a lot to maintain. Maybe F22 is the last aircraft that Lockheed will produce.

[Non-Vet]

One thing bugs me a lot about all this Raptor/JSF extravagance. If these aircraft can't be shoot down, than the market for them is very little. If the USAF engages let's say some third world country that purchased let's say 50 Sukhoi's and shoots them down without any losses, than actually the USAF has the damage (missiles fired, fuel consumption, pilot's paycheck, support on the ground pay's, spare parts although F22 is so super super that it rarely breaks down but still...). I think that the Lockheed actually shoot itself in the foot by making Raptor. Aircraft is a product and in order to profit products need to be consumed but I don't know, if they make these and no one of them gets shoot down there will be no need for a new aircraft's and the existing ones will cost a lot to maintain. Maybe F22 is the last aircraft that Lockheed will produce.

We will NEVER struggle in the air against the third world nations. They get very dumbed down versions of Russian equipment. I'd go as far as saying they get ripped off very badly.

[Versus]

We will NEVER struggle in the air against the third world nations. They get very dumbed down versions of Russian equipment. I'd go as far as saying they get ripped off very badly.

Oh, I know that very well...One of our MiG 29 which was shoot down had its all avionics malfunction like 5 minutes after take off.

Domestic production, however rules. It is kind of irony, you send the most advanced fighter in the air and it gets broken down, than shoot down and than for the next couple of months only things that actually fly and perform combat sorties are aircraft's that are domestic. To make irony even higher none of those aircrafts were shoot down by other planes although they were outnumbered like 64:1.

I am very skeptical when military technology is the matter. There are few good things out there but they are not even close to the images that are advertised and served to the public.

[Non-Vet]

Oh, I know that very well...One of our MiG 29 which was shoot down had its all avionics malfunction like 5 minutes after take off.

Domestic production, however rules. It is kind of irony, you send the most advanced fighter in the air and it gets broken down, than shoot down and than for the next couple of months only things that actually fly and perform combat sorties are aircraft's that are domestic. To make irony even higher none of those aircrafts were shoot down by other planes although they were outnumbered like 64:1.

I am very skeptical when military technology is the matter. There are few good things out there but they are not even close to the images that are advertised and served to the public.

Agreed.

[BadKharma]

He's going to fly their next generation fighter the Pak FA. He is currently in school. He knows a lot about both fighters. That's as far as I'll go with that.

Unless he is currently actively a F-22 pikot in the USAF anything he supposedly knows is not the complete and total truth.

I'll tell you whats so far fetched, you are comparing a drawing board fighter to a plane that has already got FOC, that too based on some he said she said hearsay news.

Exactly I cannot believe that comparison is being made.

Russia is farther along than what people think. They never show their hand. That is their nature.

And you think that all the specs for the US arsenal's latest weapons are completely released for everyone to review at heir leisure? As far as I know the service ceiling for the F-22 is still classified along with several other performance values. Iffy and inexact things have been released. Look at the US Attack submarines since the LA boats they have been around along time however their "top speed" is listed as speed 25+ knots .

[Non-Vet]

Unless he is currently actively a F-22 pikot in the USAF anything he supposedly knows is not the complete and total truth.

Exactly I cannot believe that comparison is being made.

And you think that all the specs for the US arsenal's latest weapons are completely released for everyone to review at heir leisure? As far as I know the service ceiling for the F-22 is still classified along with several other performance values. Iffy and inexact things have been released. Look at the US Attack submarines since the LA boats they have been around along time however their "top speed" is listed as speed 25+ knots .

Nothing is the total truth. Both sides exaggerate their abilities.

[Jimmy]

For an Army guy, you seem pretty confident in your "knowledge" of air combat and aircraft capabilities.

[BadKharma]

For an Army guy, you seem pretty confident in your "knowledge" of air combat and aircraft capabilities.

My knowledge as you put it if you look at my post was only a active pilot in the USAF would know the full capability of the F-22 is that incorrect?

[zraver]

They also have two new Main battle tanks getting ready to enter service. It's funny because most are just expecting one the T-95.

It's been awhile but I get the dream is still alive for some. The T-80UM2 Black Eagle project was canceled. The T-95 does not seem to be going anywhere. Last I knew it was supposed to enter production in 2007 but has not done so yet, even with the massive cash reserves Russia has. The most likely reason is the technology has eluded the Russians. They still cannot make a decent tank FLIR and have to import them from France. Not a good situation of a tank that gets rid of the mk I eyeball to move the crew under armor.

That is why Putin was not concerned with the conventional weapons treaty with Nato. Their newer weapons are going to shock a lot of people. The technological gap is quickly eroding.

Putin wasn't concerned because NATO is a bunch of pansy waists. Until NATO takes Russia serious there is no conventional threat.

[Non-Vet]

It's been awhile but I get the dream is still alive for some. The T-80UM2 Black Eagle project was canceled. The T-95 does not seem to be going anywhere. Last I knew it was supposed to enter production in 2007 but has not done so yet, even with the massive cash reserves Russia has. The most likely reason is the technology has eluded the Russians. They still cannot make a decent tank FLIR and have to import them from France. Not a good situation of a tank that gets rid of the mk I eyeball to move the crew under armor.




Putin wasn't concerned because NATO is a bunch of pansy waists. Until NATO takes Russia serious there is no conventional threat.

The Russian government recently bailed out the bankrupt company that will produce the Black Eagle. They have already mentioned the T-95 will not be produced until 2010. Yours is old news.

[Officer of Engineers]

what is so far fetched about it? He is very young and i do not know what he currently flies but his goal is to fly the pak. Trust me he knows a lot about both aircraft. Do not overestimate american equipment. I've used it enough to know.

horse puckey!

[Officer of Engineers]

My knowledge as you put it if you look at my post was only a active pilot in the USAF would know the full capability of the F-22 is that incorrect?

Jimmy was commenting on Vet, an obvious faker.

[BadKharma]

Jimmy was commenting on Vet, an obvious faker.

OK that makes much more sense.

[entropy]

It's been awhile but I get the dream is still alive for some. The T-80UM2 Black Eagle project was canceled. The T-95 does not seem to be going anywhere. Last I knew it was supposed to enter production in 2007 but has not done so yet, even with the massive cash reserves Russia has. The most likely reason is the technology has eluded the Russians. They still cannot make a decent tank FLIR and have to import them from France. Not a good situation of a tank that gets rid of the mk I eyeball to move the crew under armor.

Sir,

Russia does barely have the means to upgrade their T-72's to modern standards. The cash reserves might seem big, but the army suffers from murderous inefficiency and corruption. Money gets lost, and the government supervisioned programs are mostly made to show off.
Remember the Yuri Dolgorukij sub affair, with the submarine standing in drydock with black plastic bags here and there instead of panels?

[Jimmy]

OK that makes much more sense.

I like his new name. :)