Afghanistan Legends

[Guest]

PS:

I never understood why Napoleon is so cool of a tyrant compared to others in the Western world and other pro-Western people. People claim that Napoleon was NOT a blood thirsty tyrant, because ... he was a military genuis. WTF retarded!!!

The man made and unmade nations a dozen times over in the span of 20 years. But that is some how awesome. I think Napleon should have convereted to Islam - like Timur -, then history would have remembered him as the man he really was.

and yes I know that the number of heads knocked off shoulders by Timur was far greater than that of Napleon. But that is because one lived in Imperial age as oppose to Medieval age.

[dilawar]

He's using a combination of black humour and sarcasm on you and here you are bursting into full angry nationalist mode.

No. Let him use 'black humor and sarcasm' and put up an Icon of Bin Laden. I'll see how many will call it anything near humor here. Also it's not just some Afghan King who kicked butt 250 years ago. Why don't you hang around with a Hitler icon. That too is well into history 65 years or so. And Ahmed Shah Durrani was many times worse than Bin Laden.

His sacking of Mathura, the Bethlehem of the Hindus, is worth recounting. After having killed thousands of Hindus on his way, he finally arrived at the holy city. The invader had issued his orders to sally and plunder (March 3, 1757 A.D.). His soldiers were assured that everyone would be allowed to keep whatever plunder he took and would be paid Rs 5 (a sizeable amount at the time) for every enemy head brought in. It was midnight when the camp-followers went out to attack. One horseman mounted a horse and took ten to twenty others, each attached to the tail of the horse preceding it, and drove them just like a string of camels. When it was three hours after sunrise they were seen to come back. Every horseman had loaded up all his horses with the plundered property, and atop of it rode the girl captives and the slaves. The severed heads were tied up in rugs like bundles of grain and placed on the heads of the captives...Then the heads were stuck upon lances and taken to the gate of the chief minister for payment. It was an extraordinary display. Daily did this manner of slaughter and plundering proceed. And at night the shrieks of the women captives who were being raped, deafened the ears of the people...All those heads that had been cut off were built into pillars, and the captive men upon whose heads those bloody bundles had been brought in, were made to grind corn, and then their heads too were cut off. These things went on all the way to the city of Agra, nor was any part of the country spared..Ahmed Shah Abdali also destroyed the holiest temple of the Sikhs in Amritsar. To desecrate the holy Golden temple, he slaughtered hundreds of cows and people, filled the sacred tank of the temple with that blood.

One does not try and iconize rapists and thiefs. Even if they come in the garb of some national icons. The topic started by Benawa is 'Afghan Legends'. I think it is perfectly justified in asking Benawa if he does'nt consider it insensitive having the icon of Durrani while he talks about Afghan legends on an international forum.

Wars have occurred throughout history. And presumably all wars are cruel. It's about abhorrence, what Hitler did to Jews and Gypsies, what Abdali did in Mathura and Amritsar will forever etch as abhorent and demented inhuman /worse than an animal behaviour against a people who never warred on him. This was not just war it was something much beyond, slaughter of innocents, rape of women, thievery.

Xerxes, will request you to speak for yourself. Not for me, or the majority on this forum.

Sumku, i appreciate you standing up for the right.

[dilawar]

My take on this is simple, some acts committed by even victors are abhorrent and disgusting. They must remain so, abhorred. Else civilizational icons change. Once the icon changes civilization does too. If we're not abhorred by Hitler, Bin Ladens, Durrani's deeds then we will undergo repeats of what they did. That is how nature works. That is why we have organizations like Amnesty and for human rights today because civilizations do tend to forget. They consistently do remind us of where modern governments go wrong. That does keep things somewhere, somewhat atleast in control.

We've all read human right abuses in India, Pakistan, Abu Gharib, but by being abhorred and bringing them into light only does pressure on respective governments or institutions work somewhat. If we cease to be abhorred and dismiss the abhorrence through 'black humor' or 'sarcasm' we lay the foundations for destruction of our civilizational values.

[Sumku]

My take on this is simple, some acts committed by even victors are abhorrent and disgusting. They must remain so, abhorred. Else civilizational icons change. Once the icon changes civilization does too. If we're not abhorred by Hitler, Bin Ladens, Durrani's deeds then we will undergo repeats of what they did. That is how nature works. That is why we have organizations like Amnesty and for human rights today because civilizations do tend to forget. They consistently do remind us of where modern governments go wrong. That does keep things somewhere, somewhat atleast in control.

We've all read human right abuses in India, Pakistan, Abu Gharib, but by being abhorred and bringing them into light only does pressure on respective governments or institutions work somewhat. If we cease to be abhorred and dismiss the abhorrence through 'black humor' or 'sarcasm' we lay the foundations for destruction of our civilizational values.

Couldn't have been much clearer than this one. Not too often does one gets to read on a topic on which many don't even have a clue. Its called Clarity of Mind and dilawar you possess a lot of it.Thanks

[Sumku]

I never understood why

'Coz you don't have clarity of mind, get some from dilawar. It would help

I never understood why Napoleon is so cool of a tyrant compared to others

No one is saying that Napoleon was cool but certainly was a lot cooler than Hitler,Nader Shah and Abdali. He was a military genius and his actions did resulted in many dead as in all wars[which again is no good], but unlike Hitler,Nader Shah and Abdali he didn't commit genocide just so that his opponents worshiped someone else. Onus to prove that Napoleon also did some such thing rests on you.

[Sumku]

Geography pretty well limited whom you can conquer. Indian influence spread as far as SE Asia but the West was blocked by the Persians and the north by the mountains.

Party true but then again if Hindu kings had to resort to Genocide on non-Hindus, they could have done the same within India. We have had a sizeable number of Christians and Jews and Muslims living inside the area of Influence of Hindu Kings. Only if Maharaja Hari-Singh had not stopped genocide which was about to take place in Kashmir, things would have been a lot different in India today. Besides Shah Jahan's empire extended all the way from India,Pakistan,Bangladesh,Afghanistan to CHINA[though for a very small time].

[dilawar]

Sumku thanks for your kind words, conscience and conviction are all you need to worry about. If you have them intact, just don't worry about anything. I'm actually the wrong guy to say this really..But fact is still today there are nations/ people ready to grovel for favor, image and ready to rape, humilate, torture and murder for some short term or long term ideal/ favor. Much of this arises from false iconism. 5 statements of piety don't compensate for the 6th statement condoning 'honor killings' or beheading Daniel Peal or Paul Johnson or the inhabitants of Mathura or burying alive of 5 teenage girls in Baluchistan for example.

There's a reason why we appreciate Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela..they taught us to have icons more amenable to the conscience within us. For peace and forgiveness. Exactly the opposite reason why we abhor Polpot, Yahya Khan or Durrani. I can see your priorities are correct. You'll always feel good deep inside if your priorites fall within the ambits of your conscience and not some book. Glad to have you on board. :)

[troung]

Can I find a Hindu king who slapped one legged republicans because he did not like the color pink to be worn on leap years?

The initial statement was India has never hurt another nation – lumping in every state that has ever operated within the modern borders of India one would have to be really ****ing stupid to make that claim. Issue settled. Not a right and wrong issue just did it hurt someone else. So that canned nationalistic statement is a fail.

This is just as lame as when redbrigades same the same about china, how it never attacked someone else.

As for the high moral ground, once again blow me unless you want to dig up topics with Napoleon and rant about him killing, you will fail to convince a single non-Indian that your complaint of the avatar was not sour grapes for Durrani winning over 250years ago and was instead a stand against war. You had no right to ***** about it, you just wanted to make a scene and bully him, well congratulations, this is twice in a week you are made to look stupid. You have added nothing to the discussion at WAB.

Durrani rumbled with enemy armies, and then pillaged the countryside, nothing terribly out of the ordinary for conduct done in war then, but your complaint is not over the conduct of war then but him because he did it to India. Not much different then Napoleon killing and invading across Europe (the Spain part of his career should remove any shine) whose image would get a complaint as an avatar. Not genocide, brutal rape and pillage with of course over inflated numbers (Genghis Khan killed the entire population of Central Asia several times over) done by armies living off the areas they were operating in.

I declare henceforth Napoleon and anything Canadian (anyone who thinks Genghis Khan is bad the Canucks have him beat) should not be discussed here. I’ll ***** and whine about it like dilweed and the other sock puppet, whose name doesn't matter.

No one is saying that Napoleon was cool but certainly was a lot cooler than Hitler,Nader Shah and Abdali. He was a military genius and his actions did resulted in many dead as in all wars[which again is no good],

Yawn, Nadir Shah was a military genius and Durrani was doing something right, because you guys are *****ing.

=========

Let me get this straight. You pay $500 for a woman to walk all over you and choke the crap out of you. Mine does that for free and to get her to choke me, I just have to p!ss her off - like allowing the dog get to her shoes.

I pay them to stop.

And you're btching about a tin of butter cookies?

Principle of the issue, anyone could go out and buy, but having you guys mail it to a friend and then having them hand delivered is a different story.

[troung]

I can see your priorities are correct. You'll always feel good deep inside if your priorites fall within the ambits of your conscience and not some book. Glad to have you on board.

waawwwwwwwwawawww

Get a room with brokenbacksickle guy...

There's a reason why we appreciate Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela..they taught us to have icons more amenable to the conscience within us

Gandhi offends me, he was against England. His name should be banned here.

Martin Luther was a raging anti-Semite, great example. And he plunged Europe into war.

If we cease to be abhorred and dismiss the abhorrence through 'black humor' or 'sarcasm' we lay the foundations for destruction of our civilizational values.

wahahahahhaahahahah - cry baby.

Some is just made because they are broke and have no sense of taste - compounded by Durrani winning 250years ago.

[troung]

Moar Afghan legends!!!111111!!!

Just settled up the founder of Afghanistan as a pretty major ass kicker.

[dilawar]

Troung, must say the icon suits you..to boot :))

[troung]

Yeah, and I thought that your previous Avatar of a retarded ugly ***** was actually you. However now you have made me wise.Thanks.

A human rights activist; why do you hate freedom you Nazi?

[Blademaster]

Napoleon made a career off of invading others - duh duh duh - but that's cool because he didn't invade India I guess. Sour grapes from hundreds of years ago.



Go there now and tell them otherwise and convince them to become buddhists or hindus.

nah I got a better idea. I am gonna tell them to head over to your country and convert the lot of ya. See how you like it.

And my high horse is a special breed, won it from a prince from Dubai after a night of billiards. The horse costs more then your home. Probably reads better than you as well.

Sure that horse costs more than the house for one reason, it is fulll of that fine whaddya call it? Semen from the excessive coupling from that prince of dubai.

I am also better looking then you.

Yeah sure in your dreams.

[troung]

Sure that horse costs more than the house for one reason, it is fulll of that fine whaddya call it? Semen from the excessive coupling from that prince of dubai.

You're just mad that the person who cleans the stall gets paid more then you.

[dilawar]

Nadir Shah was a military genius and Durrani was doing something right, because you guys are *****ing.

I guess it will take you a some more kicking on your buttside to realize you're just a tom tom that brags about money and paying for sex..neither of which you have obviously enough off despite your taunts to others. Durrani was doing right? Beheading innocents and raping women and being a thief and beheading innocents and filling revered places with blood and carcass? What sort of black humor is this Troung? Who do you represent? Don't tell me again you represent 5 years on this forum with this of sort BS..the icon does suit you. More than Benawa, who i would appreciate to hear from more on this forum.