"Clubbing baby seals"

[ASG]

So you want me to do your hard work for you. HMM.

[Jay]

"You seem a bit confused. There were BVR detections, but only the indians were allowed to simulate BVR firings, the Eagles were restricted to WVR.

yeah, I was trying to imply that. IMO since Raptors cannot use thier stealth/range it wont be that big of a technological superiority against a MKI or a smaller plane like a F-16. Coz in WVR its all about dog fighting...if I'm not wrong.

Also note, the article says that Eagles can 'occasionally' get a sidewinder kill WVR. Further, the pilots flying against the Raptor are among the very best in the USAF.

Yeah, but you know how it is. The other airforces do have some very bright pilots ;)

...as in "Maybe I can't hit any Moving ground vehicle..."
Give an A-10 for CAS any day.

Very true, A Raptor can never match a A-10 for CAS, not that there are other planes that can do the job anyway. Snipe is an ardent fan of A-10 :)

[SwingKid]

Very true, A Raptor can never match a A-10 for CAS, not that there are other planes that can do the job anyway.

Oh I don't know, failing an A-10 being nearby the Harrier's probably better than nothing...

I've heard stories even the Falcon and Hornet can hit something now and then...

-SK

[The Chap]

The R. is superb and pity the foe who meets it. For now.
As I've posted many atime before the lead-to-service for refit (radar) against airframe - fixed - is short. Given a lOs profile that is intimately dependent on the airframe's nature, I think that a rather short and expensive shelf life is in the offing for a current world beater

[Bluesman]

The R. is superb and pity the foe who meets it. For now.
As I've posted many atime before the lead-to-service for refit (radar) against airframe - fixed - is short. Given a lOs profile that is intimately dependent on the airframe's nature, I think that a rather short and expensive shelf life is in the offing for a current world beater

Perhaps. But as applies to that unknowable interval of time, I refer you to one of my favorite quotes: "The most expensive thing in the world is having the second-best Air Force in a war."

[Bill]

"...as in "Maybe I can't hit any Moving ground vehicle..."

Oh i wouldn't worry about that. :)

"Give an A-10 for CAS any day."

Considering that i run the biggest(and of course best) A-10 community on the net with some 1600+ members, almost all of whom are USAF A-10 related personnel(past or present), you don't need to convince me dude.

But "Strike" and "CAS" are two VERY different roles.

The "A" in F/A-22 means STRIKE, not Attack. ;)

The F-15C is thirty years old, the fleet is damned tired, and like i said, a big chunk of it's already been cannibalized.

It was either make a massive re-capitilization investment in the Eagle, or make something new.

We made something new, with some inherent advantadges that the Eagle, no matter how upgraded, could never match...ever.

[Bill]

"Is there a typo here? Doesn't 5x50 lbs simply equal 250? i.e. a pinprick weapon? I thought this weapon would only ever be any use against HQ building targets. Is it able to destroy bridges?"

In tests the SDB has equalled the hard-target penetration of the 2,700lb BLU-109/B(primary armament of the F-117), and because of the all-new explosive filler used in SDB, it is still a very powerful munition. Rumor has it the SDB exceeds the overpressure rating of a Mk83 munition by some 20%.

SDB also has a 60 kilometer stand-off range...which is FAR beyond the range of any other un-powered glide weapon in anyones inventory.

For the vast majority of targets, SDB is an overmatch weapon.

[Bill]

"Oh I don't know, failing an A-10 being nearby the Harrier's probably better than nothing..."

USMC Harriers are junk.

[Bill]

"IMO since Raptors cannot use thier stealth/range it wont be that big of a technological superiority against a MKI or a smaller plane like a F-16. Coz in WVR its all about dog fighting...if I'm not wrong."

In close the F-22 will be relying on it's 11Gs sustained manuevering capability, the JHMCS, AIM-9X, and unparralled dive/climb/acceleration/roll rates. The F-22 also has the ability to extend and escape from any fight it doesn't feel it will have the advantadge in.

Even if you take away all the stealth and avionics bells and whistles of the F-22, it will still fly circles around anything else in the sky, literally. :)

[Bill]

"You show me the link to a combat result other than killing Eagles that the F/A-22 can accomplish that the F-15 can't, and I'll be happy to follow it..."

Use your imagination.

I'll help you out with four, just to get ya started... ;)

1) Escorted AWACS killer
2) First day of war SEAD
3) First day of war strike
4) First day of war Air Superiority

In the F-22s IOTC tests 2 F-22s repeatedly closed, engaged, and destroyed, 4 F-16C Blk50s escorting a simulated enemy AWACs threat(E-3Bs were used instead of mainstays, obviously), and the AWACs threat....all without a single F-22 lost.

Try that with 2 F-15Cs, see what happens... ;)

[SwingKid]

USMC Harriers are junk.

What, you don't like DU?

Last I checked the Harrier almost won an entire war...

-SK

[Bill]

"Last I checked the Harrier almost won an entire war..."

That was over 20 years ago lad. The Harriers are maintenance nightmares.

Over in Iraq they were based with USAF A-10s, and i've had numerous A-10 personnel tell me that the AV-8s were always broken, and had a hideous readiness rate.

[SwingKid]

Over in Iraq they were based with USAF A-10s, and i've had numerous A-10 personnel tell me that the AV-8s were always broken, and had a hideous readiness rate.

Well that's an objective source.

Schwarzkopf cited the Harrier, F-117A and Apache as three of the "seven weapon systems that made a significant contribution to the quick victory..." useful though they may have been, no A-10s nor any other aircraft were included.

-SK

[Bill]

Schwarzkopf is a skilled military politician.

The above 'smoke blowing' should therefore not surprise you.

Really dude, the AV-8B has been a huge dissapointment in US service.

[SwingKid]

Schwarzkopf is a skilled military politician.

I can certainly see the desire to cite a/c from different services, and the F-117A trumping the A-10 for political reasons, but would there be a political angle for plugging the Marines Harrier over the Marines Hornet? Both are Marines, both are McAir, but the Hornet would have won him Navy favor...

-SK