Mandela off U.S. terrorism watch lists

[LetsTalk]

Mandela off U.S. terrorism watch lists

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former South African President Nelson Mandela is to be removed from U.S. terrorism watch lists under a bill President Bush signed Tuesday.

Mandela and other members of the African National Congress have been on the list because of their fight against South Africa's apartheid regime, which gave way to majority rule in 1994.

Apartheid was the nation's system of legalized racial segregation that was enforced by the National Party government between 1948 and 1994.

The bill gives the State Department and the Homeland Security Department the authority to waive restrictions against ANC members.

"He had no place on our government's terror watch list, and I'm pleased to see this bill finally become law," said Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.

South Africa's apartheid government had designated the ANC a terrorist organization during the group's decades-long struggle against whites-only rule. Its members have been barred from receiving U.S. visas without special permission, and the bill Bush signed will lift that requirement, State Department spokesman Tom Casey said.

"What it will do is make sure that there aren't any extra hoops for either a distinguished individual, like former President Mandela, or other members of the African National Congress to get a U.S. visa," Casey said.

Mandela shared the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 with F. W. de Klerk, the South African president and National Party leader who worked with Mandela to end apartheid. Mandela replaced him as president in 1994 and served until 1999.

Recognized as a symbol of freedom and equality, Mandela will turn 90 on July 18.

He spent 27 years in prison on charges that included sabotage committed while he spearheaded the struggle against apartheid. He was released in 1990.

The bill is H.R. 5690, which "authorizes the Departments of State and Homeland Security to determine that provisions in the Immigration and Nationality Act that render aliens inadmissible due to terrorist or criminal activities would not apply with respect to activities undertaken in association with the African National Congress in opposition to apartheid rule in South Africa."

All AboutNelson Mandela • South Africa



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Mandela off U.S. terrorism watch lists - CNN.com

[LetsTalk]

This is more funny than anything.

You think this would had happened in the 70s or 80s, but better later than never.

[Bigfella]

This is more funny than anything.

You think this would had happened in the 70s or 80s, but better later than never.

Apparently he was put ON the watchlist during the Reagan era - while he was in jail. Wpould have been about the time that the US started paying the bills for Jonas Savimbi - a man who fits the bill 'terrorist' more closely than Mandela ever did.

I wonder if Suharto, Rios Montt, Pinochet, Galtieri & a dozen more besides were ever on such a list? I'm betting not.

I only only hope that terrorist watch lists are not so hopelessly politicised now.

[glyn]

I am staggered firstly that he was placed on such a list, and secondly that only now has he been taken from it. There's bureaucracy for you. Faster than a striking mamba? No. The departments involved are no doubt highly unionised and stuffed full of jobsworths and placemen. The Clinton administration did not do anything to remedy the situation, did it? I wonder why?

[ChrisF202]

I am staggered firstly that he was placed on such a list, and secondly that only now has he been taken from it. There's bureaucracy for you. Faster than a striking mamba? No. The departments involved are no doubt highly unionised and stuffed full of jobsworths and placemen. The Clinton administration did not do anything to remedy the situation, did it? I wonder why?

Why was he on the list?

Well if someone went around bombing innocent civilians in a fight that was supposedly against the government what would you call that person? The African National Congress is far from being the peaceful progressive movement its made out to be by the media. The difference between them and the IRA was mere ideology (hatred of White people/White rule instead of British rule).

[glyn]

Why was he on the list?

Well if someone went around bombing innocent civilians in a fight that was supposedly against the government what would you call that person? The African National Congress is far from being the peaceful progressive movement its made out to be by the media. The difference between them and the IRA was mere ideology (hatred of White people/White rule instead of British rule).

I take your point, but I must point out that the IF changes everything.

[Officer of Engineers]

The ANC was also a guerrilla movement as well as a political movement. We have a few WAB members who can testify their atrocities. Nelson Mandela was guilty by association simply because he refused to abandon the ANC. Added to that that his wife at the time, Winnie Mandela did her own criminal acts, those looking for an excuse to club Nelson Mandela to the ANC crime list can easily find it.

[Blademaster]

The only reason why ANC was placed on the list was because they received aid and support from communist countries and the government of South Africa at that time was western friendly. Notice that some groups in South America and in Africa with far worse track records than ANC were never placed on the terrorist lists just simply because they were anti-communists. In fact, the government of South Africa commited far more atrocities than the ANC and ANC just responded in kind. How come the government of South Africa were not placed on the state sponsor terrorism list? One word: hypocrisy.

That list of terrorism is a load of crock.

[Officer of Engineers]

Hitsh, the lists refers to individuals, not countries.

[LetsTalk]

I am staggered firstly that he was placed on such a list, and secondly that only now has he been taken from it. There's bureaucracy for you.

My thoughts too.

The Clinton administration did not do anything to remedy the situation, did it? I wonder why?

I was wondering the same thing.

[LetsTalk]

Apparently he was put ON the watchlist during the Reagan era - while he was in jail. Wpould have been about the time that the US started paying the bills for Jonas Savimbi - a man who fits the bill 'terrorist' more closely than Mandela ever did.

I wonder if Suharto, Rios Montt, Pinochet, Galtieri & a dozen more besides were ever on such a list? I'm betting not.

I only only hope that terrorist watch lists are not so hopelessly politicised now.

The only reason why ANC was placed on the list was because they received aid and support from communist countries and the government of South Africa at that time was western friendly. Notice that some groups in South America and in Africa with far worse track records than ANC were never placed on the terrorist lists just simply because they were anti-communists. In fact, the government of South Africa commited far more atrocities than the ANC and ANC just responded in kind. How come the government of South Africa were not placed on the state sponsor terrorism list? One word: hypocrisy.

That list of terrorism is a load of crock.

Agree, the US governments have used lists, be it terrorist lists, be it human right lists for political reasons. And one can find hypocrisy in a few places on how we treat individuals, governments and organizations. But than again that is the case with all governments.

[sappersgt]

by Blademaster
The only reason why ANC was placed on the list was because they received aid and support from communist countries and the government of South Africa at that time was western friendly.

That is only one reason. South Africa has always been a vital strategic location and the US was definitely interested in keeping it out of Communist hands. Don't underestimate Cold War tensions. The other reason is that the ANC without a doubt was deliberately killing innocent civilians. That is called terrorism. Terrorism is unacceptable whether it's Northern Ireland, South Africa or New York.

Notice that some groups in South America and in Africa with far worse track records than ANC were never placed on the terrorist lists just simply because they were anti-communists.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That still doesn't excuse terrorism.

In fact, the government of South Africa committed far more atrocities than the ANC and ANC just responded in kind.

Not from the view of someone who was doing the fighting. That is an argument of whether the end justifies the means. Not if it's your in laws and cousins doing the dying.

[GraniteForge]

The ANC was also a guerrilla movement as well as a political movement. We have a few WAB members who can testify their atrocities. Nelson Mandela was guilty by association simply because he refused to abandon the ANC. Added to that that his wife at the time, Winnie Mandela did her own criminal acts, those looking for an excuse to club Nelson Mandela to the ANC crime list can easily find it.

Mandela wasn't guilty just "by association," he qualified as a terrorist -- indeed, a terrorist leader -- by his own acts. Remember that he was a lawyer for the ANC during their early, "peaceful" phase, and one of the leading planners at the beginning of the armed phase. He was the frontman who arranged for training, funding, and weapons smuggling from foreign countries, and he was one of the people who helped identify targets to attack.

[Blademaster]

The other reason is that the ANC without a doubt was deliberately killing innocent civilians. That is called terrorism. Terrorism is unacceptable whether it's Northern Ireland, South Africa or New York.

And executing someone for daring to fight against apartheid is not terrorism?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That still doesn't excuse terrorism.

Nor it should excuse brutal suppression of one's inalienable rights through gov't sanctioned murder and brutality.

Not from the view of someone who was doing the fighting. That is an argument of whether the end justifies the means. Not if it's your in laws and cousins doing the dying.

So the oppressed should take it and suck it up while not doing anything? I don't buy that. There's a limit to civil disobedience and violence is justified when all means of obtaining one's inalienable rights fail. The government you have fought for had taken away inalienable rights and brutalized and suppressed those who dare to restore their inalienable rights.

Very easy to say that your cousins are dying when those oppressed people are fighting back to redress the wrongs done against them.

Face it, your gov't and your cousins which I am guessing were South Africans had it coming when they started oppressing those natives in their own land.

[Blademaster]

Mandela wasn't guilty just "by association," he qualified as a terrorist -- indeed, a terrorist leader -- by his own acts. Remember that he was a lawyer for the ANC during their early, "peaceful" phase, and one of the leading planners at the beginning of the armed phase. He was the frontman who arranged for training, funding, and weapons smuggling from foreign countries, and he was one of the people who helped identify targets to attack.

Then by your token, George Washington and the rest of the Founding Fathers were terrorists.