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  • Mall Massacre in Nebraska

    Gunman Kills Eight, Then Kills Himself, at Omaha Shopping Mall
    Wednesday, December 05, 2007

    OMAHA, Neb. — BREAKING NEWS: A man with a rifle opened fire at a busy Omaha shopping mall Wednesday, killing eight people before taking his own life, police said. Five others were wounded, two critically.

    Shoppers and employees ran screaming through the mall and barricaded themselves in dressing rooms after hearing gunfire. The gunman was found dead on the third floor of the Von Maur department store.

    A suspect was taken into custody, but his role in the shooting was not clear. An employee at the Von Maur department store, where the shooting took place, reportedly sustained a self-inflicted wound.

    Two gunshot victims who were treated at Creighton Medical Center died from their wounds, FOX News confirmed, and a third victim being treated there remained in critical condition.

    No additional information was available on the other fatalities.

    Andrea McMaster, a spokeswoman for the University of Nebraska Medical Center, told FOX News that three shooting victims were being treated there: a 61-year-old man shot in the chest, a 34-year-old man shot in the arm, and a 55-year-old man with a cut to his face. The 61-year-old man was in critical condition and undergoing surgery.

    FOX News confirmed that one victim was shot in the head and killed.

    A witness, Todd Trimpe, told FOX News that he saw police apprehend a man, dressed in camouflage, who was hiding under a bus-stop bench outside the mall. Trimpe said the man "stood out like a sore thumb." He did not know what was happening inside the mall when he witnessed the arrest.

    Police had put the Westroads Mall, Omaha's largest shopping mall, on lockdown while it searched for the gunman.

    One of the victims was reportedly an elderly man found near an escalator inside Von Maur department store, one of the mall's anchor tenents.

    Witnesses described hearing "dozens and dozens" of shots being fired, with one witness saying she heard more than 30 shots.

    A woman who answered the phone at an Old Navy store said 20 to 30 customers were huddled with employees in a back storeroom.

    "All we know was people were running and screaming down the hallway by Von Maur saying there was a shooting, and then they locked us down," said the woman, who said her name was Heidi.

    Keith Fidler, an employee at Von Maur, said he heard the burst of gunfire, followed by dozens of shots. Fidler said he huddled in the corner of the men's clothing department with about a dozen other employees until police yelled to get out of the store.

    Fidler said he did not see the shooting, but saw a person lying by the elevator as he was leaving the store.

    President Bush was in town Wednesday for a fundraiser in Omaha, but left about an hour before the shooting.

    This is a developing story. Refresh this page for updates.
    FOXNews.com - Gunman Kills Eight, Then Kills Himself, at Omaha Shopping Mall - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

    Up to 9 dead now, 10 including the gunman.

    Yeah yeah yeah you people from Australia or UK will come out of the woodworks to say guns should be banned blah blah blah.

    Question, would this have happened if the 1/3 of the mall patrons are known to have concealed carry weapons? Or even if one guy had a carry gun next to the gunman when this happened, would it have ended differently?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  • #2
    But again it's not the guns that kill people...but the people that kill people. I say we take a large city, like in the movie "Escape from New York" and put all the thugs, drug dealers, etc., in there and let them deal with each other in their own way!
    “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” ~ Jimi Hendrix
    "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
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    • #3
      Gunnut don't presume that the re-action will be "Yeah yeah yeah you people from Australia or UK will come out of the woodworks to say guns should be banned blah blah blah." and I have no doubt there are people carrying weapons but the end result was the same.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
        FOXNews.com - Gunman Kills Eight, Then Kills Himself, at Omaha Shopping Mall - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

        Up to 9 dead now, 10 including the gunman.

        Yeah yeah yeah you people from Australia or UK will come out of the woodworks to say guns should be banned blah blah blah.

        Question, would this have happened if the 1/3 of the mall patrons are known to have concealed carry weapons? Or even if one guy had a carry gun next to the gunman when this happened, would it have ended differently?
        Of course it would still happened. Obviously the person in question was disturbed and determined enough to commit suicide regardless if anyone may or may not have been armed. As to the outcome, thats all speculation. What you have here is the uncontrollable. A person, which is suicidal and is armed in a public place. We can only speculate what turned this individual to give up life and take another in such a fashion. However, as the world we live in today and the problems that exist in it can offer some light into why he did it.

        Like I said, this isn't the first time it has happened and nor is he the only one that would do something like this. However, it's all about Al Qaeda? (Last part wasn't directed towards you, just in general)
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Southie View Post
          I say we take a large city, like in the movie "Escape from New York" and put all the thugs, drug dealers, etc., in there and let them deal with each other in their own way!
          Uh, we did. Its called Australia. They banned guns and then the bunnies took over.

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          • #6
            Gunnut, at least give us poor ignorant Olde Worlders the benefit of the doubt before predicting what we are gonna say.
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            • #7
              I think we need to start being less restrictive about concealed carry permits and start moving towards armed and more professional security staff at malls and major public venues.

              For example; here in NY (especially NYC and Long Island) it is pretty much next to impossible to get a concealed carry permit unless your are an retired LEO (who can carry on their badge) or your a politician or a "chosen one".

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              • #8
                However, if guns weren't so mass produced and available to the wide spread public and a coordinated effort which equals that of the war on drugs, would it be easier or harder to obtain a firearm? I mean, simple nowadays, it's too easy. I could walk down the street and find a firearm faster then I can find the local DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) office. Literally.

                I'm not saying that these problems wouldn't exists. And it's unlikely due to the amount of firearms already in circulation.

                However, in the last 30 or something years, if there wasn't a massive production tailored for the wide public, what would be the way of obtaining a firearm? Through foreign smuggling means. Bootlegged home made? Theft? With a coordinated effort on keeping guns off the street equal of that of putting them on the street. Would it be easier or more difficult? Surely we may loose some industrial base and professional expertise in the industry and be less competitive on the world stage or loose some prestige such as "COLT" "Berreta" and whatever yet would that be such a bad thing? I mean, hey, I'm sure DOD could acceptably support there vendors. As they do with everyone else. Am I saying that we wouldn't have the same problems? No. Am I saying there wouldn't be weapons on the street? No. But if there was such a coordinated effort on preventing these weapons from ending up on the street as there are putting them on the street and keeping drugs off the street would it not be more difficult to obtain a firearm?
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChrisF202 View Post
                  I think we need to start being less restrictive about concealed carry permits and start moving towards armed and more professional security staff at malls and major public venues.
                  I don't know if you're saying this in relation specifically to the Nebraska tragedy or your NY matter later but Nebraska has a shall-issue policy on CCPs. As far as I understand it it means Average Joe can get a CCP if he meets the basic requirements and checks. Either the guy was a very hard target, the law-abiding shooters were poor, they were too scared, or there weren't any there. In any case the news doesn't mention retaliation.
                  Last edited by HistoricalDavid; 06 Dec 07,, 02:00.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HistoricalDavid View Post
                    I don't know if you're saying this in relation specifically to the Nebraska tragedy or your NY matter later but Nebraska has a shall-issue policy on CCPs. As far as I understand it it means Average Joe can get a CCP if he meets the basic requirements and checks. Either the guy was a very hard target, the law-abiding shooters were poor, they were too scared, or there weren't any there. In any case the news doesn't mention retaliation.
                    Most people, even if they do own a gun, probably never even saw the shooter. They just found a place to hide, and more likely then not those close enough panicked. If you're in a shopping mall and all of a sudden gunshots start firing, and people are dying (and you're not ex-military) what are you going to do. I'd find a place to hide before pulling a gun out.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Feanor View Post
                      Most people, even if they do own a gun, probably never even saw the shooter. They just found a place to hide, and more likely then not those close enough panicked. If you're in a shopping mall and all of a sudden gunshots start firing, and people are dying (and you're not ex-military) what are you going to do. I'd find a place to hide before pulling a gun out.
                      I'd pull. Take a few cheap shots at his direction not exposing my self greatly to hit him, he has a rifle, just to contain him a bit and slow him down. Certainly wouldn't square up in open without cover. If he rushes me, either I die or he does. I certainly wouldn't stick my neck out there with a automatic rifle though. But i'd think i'd shoot a few rounds at him. Hey, when else do you get a chance to use a firearm in hast and in self defense. I swear, it's society bro. HAH. Shooting cans aint no fun. I don't think he is the only suicidal SOB in society. Under the right circumstances. And no paramilitary background. I'm sure there are more out there. :)) (**Applies for Mall Security FULL TACTICAL GEAR REQUIRED - WILL PASS BACKGROUND TEST :D)
                      Last edited by Dago; 06 Dec 07,, 02:23.
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                      • #12
                        That is true, the gunman was either killed by the cops or shot himself. Remember the last mall shooting, the gunman was taken down by CCW holders and responding cops who ignored orders to wait for SWAT (I believe it was a Denver mall).

                        Historical, I was referring to how it is in NY. As I said, the average Joe wont even be considered for a CCW permit here.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dago View Post
                          Hey, when else do you get a chance to use a firearm in hast and in self defense. I swear, it's society bro. HAH. Shooting cans aint no fun. :))
                          You'd be surprised at the opportunities that sometimes present themselves...... ;) I mean just dress like an American and walk down a dark street in motherland.....

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                          • #14
                            Hey, I'm not going to take a gunnut-style line and imply cowardice on their part. Personally I'd like to think I'd shoot if he was right in my face, and if not, take cover, assess and then unholster my weapon, but I will never be sure until I'm confronted with the adrenaline.

                            I'm just saying that the law has neither suceeded nor failed in this place, and people looking to turn this into a gun-political contest simply do not have the data to argue it, even if that were a tasteful thing to do.

                            Originally posted by ChrisF202 View Post
                            Historical, I was referring to how it is in NY. As I said, the average Joe wont even be considered for a CCW permit here.
                            Ah, fair enough. (Well, not fair enough for NYers. :( ) But I'm not sure more armed security guards would be a more effective solution - at least policemen are publicly accountable. A trained and armed citizenry is more tactically frightening for a nutter than a few visually identifiable rent-a-cops.
                            Last edited by HistoricalDavid; 06 Dec 07,, 02:24.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Feanor View Post
                              You'd be surprised at the opportunities that sometimes present themselves...... ;) I mean just dress like an American and walk down a dark street in motherland.....
                              Hey bro...I aint that suicidal. To walk the motherland. They cut limbs off there. No likely. I like my limbs too much. :))
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