Type 052C vs. Aerligh Burk

[bigross86]

Yeah. That's pretty much what AWACS and AEGIS are all about...

[Bill]

"With that datalink thing will each ship be able to see everything that the other ship sees?

So say in a carrier battle group there are DDGs/CGs out in front say 20 miles in front of the Carrier and then there is one 20 miles behind the carrier group and two on each side 20 miles out. Will you be able to see everything that everyone else in the Carrier Battle Group sees?

So in essence you can see far past what your own radar can see?

Also could you link the AWACS radar up with the ships so what they see will show up on this big screen of the "battlespace"? "

That's the whole idea behind the USN FCEC program, being installed as we speak. It has already been fitted to several ships, though which ones, i do not know.

[bigross86]

Doesn't AEGIS do all that? What's FCEC?

[Bill]

"Doesn't AEGIS do all that? What's FCEC?"

No, early Aegis does not.

FCEC is 'fleet cooperative engagement control', and is a feature of the new Aegis Mk7 Baseline 7a upgrade.

The 7b upgrade(the latest that i am aware of) adds NMD capability for use with SM-3, and is to be fitted to the VLS Ticos only, i believe.

[Praxus]

Does FCEC include AWACS, and I would assume that it also include the carrier ?

[Bill]

All aircraft have what is called JTIDS/FDL, i can't recall right now what the latest link version is.

That serves the purpose of the FCEC for aircraft, and yes, it is compatible with FCEC and US Army TACFIRE.

Basicly, ANY platform plugged into the net sees EVERYTHING that every other platform sees.

This allows for remote engagements from one ships magizines using another's FCR, or indeed with no FCR at all (only for RAM and SM-2 IIIB and newer) since FCEC produces a very accurate composite plot track of all contacts.

An IR terminal seeking missile like SM-2 IIIB or newer can remote launch on a composite track, be updated inflight via the Aegis S band link, and perform autonomous terminal IR intercept without ever having an illuminator light the target.

Or so i'm told.

This enables maximum range engagement of missiles/aircraft/ships still well over the electronic horizon.

[bigross86]

What do later versions of AEGIS do that the earlier ones dont?

[Bill]

Well, there is a gradual increase in processing power, system memory, etc that allows for all kinds of neat features, like FCEC for instance.

[UnitedDiversity]

I can see that you guys have some misconceptions about the 052C. What I'm about to tell you is only CONFIRMED facts from photos or common sense, but it'll help.

052C, Chinese designation of their first long range air defence ship.

The numbers 052 stands for gas turbine powered (051 stands for steam) and the C means that this is the third generation of gas turbined Chinese ships.

This ship is equippted with Ageis style phased arry radars mounted in the front super structure, it's specs are currently unknown but it should be simliar to that of the US.

052C although not an dedicated ASW platform, is capable of carrying two KA-28/32 or two Z-9C ASW choppers in it's hanger bay (the choppers are parked one after another, not beside each other).

The ASW of this ship consists of eight 6 cell VSL missile launchers that is armed with HHQ-9 long range air defence missiles that are samiliar in proformance to the Russian S-300PMU. The missile may have taken design features from the S-300PMU but it is not a complete copy. Althugh the HHQ-9's VLS system is samiliar to the Russian's revolving VLS, but some reports and photos suggests that instead of revolving, the Chinese round VLS launchers has a hatch for each missile and that the VLS may not revolve at all. Short range air defence include two Type 730 CIWS which it self is an IMPROVED version of the Dutch Goalkeeper.

As of AShW, it is more or less unknown what type of ASCM that the 052C will carry. But since the latest Chinese made ASCM the YJ-83/C-803 has the range of 150miles/250kM with a terminal speed of Mach 1.4, along with very good counter jamming electronics and a guidence systems tha can tell it's target apart from other objects (something that the SS-N-22 Sunburn doesn't have), the missiles armed with the 052C should not be any worse than the YJ-83/C-803.

Displacement wise, it is estimited between 6000-8000, but that piece of information is unkown. And the first batch of two ships in this class is planned to join commission to the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) before the year 2005 is completed.

Ok those are the only facts known about the ship, anything else is speculation and I'm not about to discuss any of that because it may not be true.

[UnitedDiversity]

052C

[Bill]

"Type 730 CIWS which it self is an IMPROVED version of the Dutch Goalkeeper."

Sorry, but besides the fact that there is actually no proof whatsoever that the Chinese can match the sophistication of the Signaal Flycatcher radar suite of the Goalkeeper, the GAU-8/A Avenger cannon of the Goalkeeper fires the MUCH more powerful 30x173mm cartridge.

I could've swore i read 18 LR SAMs?

You sure it's 64? That would have to be a VERY large displacement warship in such a case.

[UnitedDiversity]

To: [M21Sniper]

With the 730, the Chinese basicly reverse engineered the Goalkeeper and then modified to fit their needs better. So I guess the radar is included in the reverse engineering.

And yes, I am pretty sure that it is 48. 6 six-cell launchers infront and 2 in the back. 8 X 6 = 46. There is a picture that shows it.

just go to this site, scroll down to the 052C section. There are three clickable links in this section. The first link says 052C the second says VLS, and the theird says 052C again. Click on that third link and you'll see a picture taking from above the ship that shows the VLS.

http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/luhai_luhu_luda.htm

[Bill]

Thanx for the pic UD.

Back to the Goalkeeper, the 30x173mm is the same round used by the mighty A-10A Warthog. It's far more powerful than the std Warsaw Pact 30mm round used by the 730.

[UnitedDiversity]

To: [M21Sniper]

oh I see, so what's the difference between the 30X173mm and the STD 30mm?

and is there something special in the 30X173 that stops the Chinese from using it?

[Praxus]

This ship is equippted with Ageis style phased arry radars mounted in the front super structure, it's specs are currently unknown but it should be simliar to that of the US.

052C although not an dedicated ASW platform, is capable of carrying two KA-28/32 or two Z-9C ASW choppers in it's hanger bay (the choppers are parked one after another, not beside each other).

The ASW of this ship consists of eight 6 cell VSL missile launchers that is armed with HHQ-9 long range air defence missiles that are samiliar in proformance to the Russian S-300PMU. The missile may have taken design features from the S-300PMU but it is not a complete copy. Althugh the HHQ-9's VLS system is samiliar to the Russian's revolving VLS, but some reports and photos suggests that instead of revolving, the Chinese round VLS launchers has a hatch for each missile and that the VLS may not revolve at all. Short range air defence include two Type 730 CIWS which it self is an IMPROVED version of the Dutch Goalkeeper.

As of AShW, it is more or less unknown what type of ASCM that the 052C will carry. But since the latest Chinese made ASCM the YJ-83/C-803 has the range of 150miles/250kM with a terminal speed of Mach 1.4, along with very good counter jamming electronics and a guidence systems tha can tell it's target apart from other objects (something that the SS-N-22 Sunburn doesn't have), the missiles armed with the 052C should not be any worse than the YJ-83/C-803.

There is no proof it is as good as the AEGIS and since they have less research on phased array radars I dought it is advanced as the newer AEGIS models.

The S-300 lacks the range of the SM-2MR as it is only 80-100km where the SM-2MR has a range of 160km.

How exactly is it better then the Goalkeeper. There is only one purpose and one purpose a lone for the Goalkeeper and that is to knock down cruise missiles. You do not suit it for your needs because the need is the same for everyone.

The YJ-83 is smaller then the Harpoon and it is barely supersonic. It should be no problem for SeaRAM, ESSM, SM-2MR, and Goalkeepers. Also it's range is only 150-200km not 250km.