6.8 SPC vs 7.62NATO vs 5.56NATO

[perryinjax]

DOne :-)
Thanks,
Perryinjax

[2DREZQ]

I think it is also appropriate to comment on the platform that these bullets are launched from. The M14 and AR variants are very different animals. Making the rifles identical in all respects save the caliber (logically) eliminates one variable in this debate. I had better go buy an AR-10T and start testing right away!

But then what do I know, my only semi-auto center-fire rifle fell off the Winchester assembly line 100 years ago.

And yes; NECRO as hell.

[Brinktk]

I know this thread is old, but I thought I'd mention a thing or two that haven't really been elaborated on.

Fire and maneuver...very VERY few assault rifle rounds IN combat are aimed like they are at the range...especially at first. In my experience, accurate aimed fire is only really achieved once fire superiority is achieved. Accurate aimed fire before fire superiority is achieved means you're exposing yourself so the enemy can do the same to you. It is REALLY hard to aim when the crack of bullets is whizzing by your ears.

Once fire superiority is achieved the units with the assault rifles are not generally staying put. They maneuver. They are closing with, flanking, egressing, dismounting, etc. while the crew served weapons talk their guns to keep the enemy pinned. The grunts need staying power in the assault, especially if they are assaulting in MOUT. Staying power is achieved through the weight, amount of ammo that can be carried reasonably, mag capacity, weapon ergonomics, and easy weapon manipulation(especially in tight places). The M4/M16 series fulfills this capacity very well. I can carry this weapon forever. I can carry the basic load forever(210 rds). I can reasonably add another 3-6 mags to the basic load and be ok. It is still accurate out past 300 meters even though I won't likely be engaging too much out to that range(we have different weapons systems for that). It is a familiar design that is easy to shoot and manipulate. It is reliable as long as it is cleaned regularly(like any soldier should do with their weapon). It doesn't get caught up in doorways, wait a minute vines, or stairways as easily. I can pull security with it looking through the optics for longer because the weight isn't fatiguing my arms as quickly. Finally, in my hands, I can kill efficiently with it.

Now I also have experience with the M14 (or EBR as some fancy it) since I carried it for a majority of my 2nd combat tour. But I was working as a designated marksman at the time which fulfilled a different role than the average grunt, especially after the small kill team concept got up and running. I love that weapon. It is a beautiful rifle and yes it really puts the bad guys down. But, would I choose it over an M4 if I was going to clear a room? No just no, but hell no. Would I carry it on a patrol over the M4, that depends. If it is for counter sniper or counter IED work then sure...if it is for day to day react to contact....you guessed it, M4 every time.

Sometimes people just won't die...not quickly at least. Sometimes the bad guys take epi, or pcp, or any number of stimulants before they open up and it doesnt matter what you hit them with they simply won't die. Unless you shoot them in the brain...and if you do that the caliber isn't all that important now is it? But that's just my opinion. That and a $1.50 will get me a cup of coffee.

[Officer of Engineers]

Sometimes people just won't die...not quickly at least. Sometimes the bad guys take epi, or pcp, or any number of stimulants before they open up and it doesnt matter what you hit them with they simply won't die.

Oh, I don't know. A .308 softnose (yes, I know. Illegal) would do the job very nicely.

But that leads to another point. We have not seen the equivlent bullet development for the 7.62NATO that we've seen for the 5.56. There's a reason why I don't hunt moose and bear with the .223 even though there has been fantastic R&D on wound channel capacity.

[Brinktk]

Oh, I don't know. A .308 softnose (yes, I know. Illegal) would do the job very nicely.

But that leads to another point. We have not seen the equivlent bullet development for the 7.62NATO that we've seen for the 5.56. There's a reason why I don't hunt moose and bear with the .223 even though there has been fantastic R&D on wound channel capacity.

Agreed, and if our enemy ever turned out to have the constitution of bears or moose...well, we've got bigger problems lol. In all seriousness though, I've shot and had fellow soldiers shoot hopped up insurgents directly in the heart at point blank range and they still managed to get shots off...some even managed to crawl to another room or dugout to have the action come down to screaming, obscenity filled hand grenade duels...only dying after they finally bled out, or we got tired of it and just had the tanks level the house. I suppose that's one way of ensuring knock down power...

PS: it was from these experiences that the controlled pairs I had been taught were not applicable to a lot of situations. Shooting until the enemy went down and extreme violence of action took precedence.