FACE/OFF : “Topgun” USN F-14 vs. USAF F-15

[The_Burning_Kid]

Captain Drunk is just a troll, that's about it. He's probably got worse actually, go check out the Stealth/Counter-Stealth thread if you want proof.

[Guest]

You all are just underestimating the AIM-54 to make the F-14 look inferior to the F-15 ;) Truth is as history showed even 3rd gen. Iraqi Mirage F-1s were shooting down allied jets in Desert Storm with their long range Matras. The F-14s fought with almost no losses in ODS while F-18s, F-16s, F-4s and even F-15s have all gone down in different Air-war theatres world wide against enemy Migs / Mirages while the sole Iranian Tomcat that was hit by an Iraqi Mig-21 probably had the same old sidewinders / sparrows the other fighters had and not the Phoenix at the time.

In other words, only the F-14 pilot with the Phoenix would have Snipers tagline "One Shot One Kill" ;)

If I recall the US hasn't lost a fixed wing aircraft in air to air combat for quite sometime maybe even as far back as Vietnam, but don't quote me on that.

[longcat]

I think an F-18 was shot down in Desert Storm by a Mig-25.

[Bill]

For one thing, they can evade the missiles

OK, how are they going to evade Mach 5+ active guided Phoenix missiles with a roughly 100 meter fragmentation radius(especially when Phoenix is invisible to the naked eye)?

I'm listening.

The Eagles(or whatever) better evade well in excess of 90% of the Phoenixes, because in a 12 v 12 if the F-14s score just a 10% kil rate with their AIM-54s, then by the time the fight closes to AMRAAM/Sparrow range the Eagles will be outnumbered 12-4.

and know there are F-14Ds out there and it means that F-14D will have less missiles while the F-15s are coming rapidly close to engage the F-14s.

There is nothing worse than being in a firefight with a gun and no bullets.

If a clean(ie post firing AIM-54s) Tomcat doesnt want to engage the F-15s it can just turn away and disengage, and the opponent willl NEVER EVEN GET A SHOT OFF IN RETURN.

Even worse than having no bullets, is having no ability at all to shoot back.

Phoenix is a FREE attack for Toms cause nothing else in the sky can EVEN SHOOT BACK at the ranges a Tom can shoot you at at.

If the Phoenixes do well the Toms can close with a huge numerical advantadge and finish off the disorganized and bloodied enemy. If they do poorly and hit only a few enemy aircraft then the F-14s STILL have a numerical edge and can close to AMRAAM range with a real advantadge.

If the Phoenixes hit nothing the Toms Ds(now clean), can simply turn around and run the hell away......and NOTHING in US service is going to catch them from behind- NOT EVEN AN F-22!

[Bill]

I think an F-18 was shot down in Desert Storm by a Mig-25.

Lt Spielcher was his name i think.

[Bill]

Captain Drunk is just a troll, that's about it. He's probably got worse actually, go check out the Stealth/Counter-Stealth thread if you want proof.

I have seen improvement in his posts.

Give it time. I know for a FACT that the moderators have their eyes on him.

If he doesn't de-troll he's history, so it's a win-win for us either way. ;)

[leib10]

I think an F-18 was shot down in Desert Storm by a Mig-25.

Although nobody knew exactly what happened to him, Scott Speicher's squadron mates knew he was shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25 that fired an AA-6 Acrid from behind.

[highsea]

OK, how are they going to evade Mach 5+ active guided Phoenix missiles with a roughly 100 meter fragmentation radius(especially when Phoenix is invisible to the naked eye)?

I'm listening.

ALQ-131 ;)

If the Phoenixes hit nothing the Toms Ds(now clean), can simply turn around and run the hell away......and NOTHING in US service is going to catch them from behind- NOT EVEN AN F-22!

At least as long as the Tom has fuel, lol. I'm pretty sure the Raptor could run him down eventually though....

[leib10]

Raptor is very slow compared to a Tomcat.

Also, jammers are not nearly 100% effective. ;)

[highsea]

Raptor is very slow compared to a Tomcat.

Raptor's top speed is classified.

[leib10]

It couldn't go too fast, the materials probably couldn't handle the stress and heat.

[gunnut]

It couldn't go too fast, the materials probably couldn't handle the stress and heat.

Yes, but a Tomcat will burn off all fuel in matter of minutes if it keeps up the afterburner. If it wants to save fuel and only cruise, then a subsonic cruiser will eventually be caught by a supersonic cruiser.

[Bill]

ALQ-131 ;)

Would that be the same ALQ-131 that the pilots on my board dismiss with contempt?

The consensus among the A-10 pilots on my site is that they'd rather carry an extra bomb on that station, so useless is the ALQ-131.

Now i am no jamming expert by any means...but the above was stated on my board on several occasions by more than one pilot.

So i dunno.

Regardless, the F-14D can embark the ALQ-131 too, and if it will work on a C model Phoenix it will sure as hell work on an AMRAAM with an antenna 1/2 the size. ;)

[Bill]

Raptor's top speed is classified.

The top speed of the F-14D is one of those ambiguous "Mach 2.4+" deals too.

We have to remember that if the Tom D turns to flee after salvoing it's Phoenixes it is liable to have as much as a 100nm head start when it punches the burners.

THAT was what i was basing my statement on more than it's actual top speed.

I will concede that in actual operational conditions in some scenarios that F-22s(and ONLY f-22s) could catch a fleeing tom though.

[Blademaster]

OK, how are they going to evade Mach 5+ active guided Phoenix missiles with a roughly 100 meter fragmentation radius(especially when Phoenix is invisible to the naked eye)?

To reach Mach 5 would require exhausting all of its fuel thus leaving no fuel left for manuevering. Basically it is a dumb missile going in one direction. Even at 100 miles, you will have plenty of warning time since going at mach 5 would light up every IR sensor and radar.

And when the F-14D punch in its burners, well it better hope that it has an aerial refueling plane nearby because it will exhaust its entire fuel supply in seconds, not minutes.

Besides Phoenixes cost over 2 million dollars apeiece and there's nothing worse than wasting 100 million dollars if you didn't hit a target because it was easy to evade the missiles.

Ok Let just say that F-14s fire all the missiles at F-15s and the F-15s beat their way out. Now what? F-14s just waste a lot of missiles and still there are F-15s out there waiting for the F-14s to egress so they can take over the airspace. Result? F-15s rule the sky.

It is all about air control and superiority. F-14s do not have the stamina of F-15s.

BY the way when you said it will be 12 v. 4 after F-14s fire all their missiles, guess what? Those 4 still have those missiles and will beat the crap out of the F-14s who don't have missiles or ammo.