M1A2 vs Challenger 2 (intelligent debate)

[Parihaka]

Don't think it was Tirpitz. She didn't capsize...I don't think...

Could be Bismark or Yamato.

I've seen a doco where that happened to the Bismark on the way down so probably her.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Don't think it was Tirpitz. She didn't capsize...I don't think...

She did.

[zraver]

a warship shedding its turrets makes a great deal of sense and it lowers the center of gravity and may help prevent a capsizing. IIRC US TICOs and Burkes are designed to shed the turret at a certain degree of roll as a safety feature.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Wow. Interesting.

[Radical]

What happens to Abrams that are knocked out or destroyed (like the turret was knocked off)? I know that Abrams are recycled in the Aniston National Army Depot and the Lima Tank Factory, so do busted up Abrams end up there? I recall one occasion where an Abrams that got taken out by an overkill (~1000 pounds) IED had its turret repaired and married with another hull.

[Albany Rifles]

Blown Up stuff

What happens to Abrams that are knocked out or destroyed (like the turret was knocked off)? I know that Abrams are recycled in the Aniston National Army Depot and the Lima Tank Factory, so do busted up Abrams end up there? I recall one occasion where an Abrams that got taken out by an overkill (~1000 pounds) IED had its turret repaired and married with another hull.

You just answered you own question. That is exactly what happens to M1s, M2sN Strykers, etc. They try to do what they can locally (In theater) but ship to CONUS depots the washouts.

[zraver]

You just answered you own question. That is exactly what happens to M1s, M2sN Strykers, etc. They try to do what they can locally (In theater) but ship to CONUS depots the washouts.

Well with Strykers, 113's and Bradleys if they burn, they are gone.

[S2]

"...They try to do what they can locally (In theater) but ship to CONUS depots the washouts."

Of course, we still waiting for the enemy that forces us to destroy them in place before they can be recovered...;)

[bigross86]

"...They try to do what they can locally (In theater) but ship to CONUS depots the washouts."

Of course, we still waiting for the enemy that forces us to destroy them in place before they can be recovered...;)

Careful what you wish for, S-2. I've been on the receiving end of some of the new ATGM's, and they are not fun to be around. Don't forget, with every single tank that is destroyed in place before it can be recovered, you've also probably lost 4 crewmembers...

[S2]

bigross86 Reply

"Careful what you wish for, S-2..."

Please help me identify where I've expressed such a wish?

Further, what has the latest series of ATGMs to do with an inability to reach a vehicle needing recovery? We've, I believe, lost M-1s to VBIEDs that constitute catastrophic kills.

The German army in W.W.II found itself unable to recover salvagable vehicles because it couldn't hold the terrain over which those vehicles were lost. I suspect that hasn't generally proved the case for us since our strategic retreat in Korea late 1950.

Separate issue and, yes, I'm fully cognizant of the likely effect upon the crew. I've been a member of a self-propelled field artillery battalion. The effect of either an ATGM or VBIED upon our vehicles would be even more profound given our larger crews and limited protection.

[bigross86]

From the way I read your post, "we're still waiting" sounded to me a bit like you wanted to meet a foe like that.

As for destroying a tank in place, it usually means that the tank has suffered some sort of hit which has managed to disable it. Usually that means a structural hit with damage. That usually leads to casualties.

I will concede, however, that I most probably misread the intent of your original post, and I apologize. The problem with reading text on an internet message board...

[S2]

bigross86 Reply

"As for destroying a tank in place, it usually means that the tank has suffered some sort of hit which has managed to disable it."

Actually it most likely means that, disabled or otherwise, you've not the time to recover the vehicle nor anticipate such time becoming available in the near future.

[bigross86]

I see. I was looking at it from a different perspective, of it just not being worth it to recover the tank because of damage, so you blow up what's left of it instead.

Once again, my mistake

[sourkraut115]

What happens to Abrams that are knocked out or destroyed (like the turret was knocked off)? I know that Abrams are recycled in the Aniston National Army Depot and the Lima Tank Factory, so do busted up Abrams end up there? I recall one occasion where an Abrams that got taken out by an overkill (~1000 pounds) IED had its turret repaired and married with another hull.

Actually, I recall seeing a fair number of Abrams hulls being hauled into the big ANAD recycling bin back in '04... pretty much what Anniston does is fix tanks (and store rotten old checmical weapons)

[zraver]

"...They try to do what they can locally (In theater) but ship to CONUS depots the washouts."

Of course, we still waiting for the enemy that forces us to destroy them in place before they can be recovered...;)

IIRC at least 2 Abrmas have been destroyed in place rather than risk their capture by the enemy. The firs tin ODS bogged down and was taken under fire first by other Abrams and then by air and then in 2003 during the Thunder run through the middle of Baghdad when El Cajone (sp?) ate at least 1 maverick through the front turret.

El Cajone at least was destroyed because recovery was impossible. We simply could not sit still and let the fire burn out so we called in air.