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I am always puzzled as to while the only time I see body armor on PLA soldiers is involving either the Special Forces or the artillery crew?
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As I think you noticed, most of these Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI) come something other than a body armor impact. IED overpressure and the always unfortunate accidents. In fact, of the three head injuries I saw people get in Iraq, they were all from accidents- an unfortunate detractor.Originally posted by bolo121 View PostComment
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My assumption is that the cost of equipping so many soldiers with any adequate body armor would be incredibly high, perhaps more than the PLA is willing to cough up. I'm sure various other units of the PLA have them, but as for the bulk of their forces, they might still be in the "expendable life" mindset. Then again, I'm no expert. I'm just taking a stab here.Originally posted by Skywatcher View PostComment
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What about, say, ballistic shields? I understand that the ballistic shields currently being carried by SWAT teams are only supposed to be proof to pistol rounds; anything higher and you'd have holes or cracks.
Denies the use of a shoulder weapon and you make a conspicuous and slow target. Not all SWAT teams think it is necessary or desirable, even in the context of room to room sweeps.
I think there's documentation on US interceptor armor, on the Dragon-skin scale armor that caused a scandal in the US media, but what about other countries? What does the UK use? How effective is UK armor when compared to other armor types?
The Dragon Skin body armor is a bad piece of equipment. The manufacturer of Dragon Skin hpyed their armor to the skies and failed to back it up with independent testing. The army put Dragon Skin in a series of tests. They found that the Russian 7.62mmx54 can readily penetrate it, its small armor scales are individually easy to shatter , and in hot weather the armor scale unit could detatch itself from the flak vest. After allegations that the trials were unfair was brought up, the Congress ordered a full review the matter, and in the end was satisfied by the army's trials.
What about armor-piercing rounds? The Chinese switched their standard ammunition to armor-piercing because of the prevalence of body armor among Western militaries, how effective is the 5.8mm round versus standard body armor? What about the Russian AP rounds?
5.56mm AP can defeat Level III ballistic plate, but Level IV can deflect bullets up to the medium machine gun. I don't think the current SAPI plates are of the same design in the original Interceptor. IIRC Strategypage reported an update sometime arround 2004, but they can be wrong.All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.Comment
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If body armor is so expensive, then why do the artillery crewers have them? That doesn't make any sense.Originally posted by ace16807 View PostComment
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They are SOF artilleristsOriginally posted by Skywatcher View Post
In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highseaComment
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Might be of interest here--I have just read a report discussing the relative merits of 5.56mm and 6.8mm rounds on a special forces forum. Other than deniability and operation security factors, another advantage for the 5.56mm (M855) is its excellent performance against light-skinned vehicles and Level III body armor.All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
-Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.Comment
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That was due to explosions, not being hit with small arms fire.Originally posted by bolo121 View PostComment
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Heavy body armour may be better in stopping rounds, but it can make troops tired more quickly.Comment
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This is true, and must be taken into consideration with regards to the mission(i.e. is it mounted/dismounted, terrain- urban/woodland/jungle/desert, movement distances/obstacles, temperature, etc...)Originally posted by Silent Hunter View PostComment
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I'm a fan of body armor for troops. In the SADF body armor was rare and not normally issued. I was only issued body armor and (kevlar) helmet once, prior to a maritime assault. We normally did without, I know wearing it was a definite boost to morale. I am happy to say it worked as advertised regarding grenade fragments and spalling. Without it I might not be writing this. :))
Military equipment such as body armor and MOPP suits were on the restricted list and were not allowed to be exported to SA. Indeed we were told that if we were out of the country and had a chance to purchase any of these items on the civilian market (military surplus, etc.) to do so as the life you saved might be your own. We were promised reimbursement at twice the cost of acquisition. I can confirm the SA embassy lived up to their word and paid that reimbursement in kruggerands.
Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
(Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)Comment
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sappersarge,
at what point in time were you allowed to get out of country and buy the armor? i'm surprised the govt didn't actively sponsor vacation trips or something for their people to get body armor individually!Military equipment such as body armor and MOPP suits were on the restricted list and were not allowed to be exported to SA. Indeed we were told that if we were out of the country and had a chance to purchase any of these items on the civilian market (military surplus, etc.) to do so as the life you saved might be your own. We were promised reimbursement at twice the cost of acquisition. I can confirm the SA embassy lived up to their word and paid that reimbursement in kruggerands.There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac AsimovComment
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The story I heard was one our Corporals had some MOPP gear and body armor purchased from some surplus dealers. Then it was shipped with his luggage to Mexico where he was met by a SA embassy official who paid him and took possession of the packages. Not a high tech or high priority operation. About as sensitive as importing Cuban cigars.Originally posted by astralis View Post
We had 6 Americans in my company. Several of them went home on leave. It wasn't hard to get leave, it was the 20,000 km flight home that was the problem for most of them. The cheapest way was to go on a SAA cargo flight. They weren't allowed to fly in the CONUS so you had to transfer to a US carrier. You paid a fee for the fold up seat and then were charged by weight. It cost me about $450 as opposed to $1800. This was when a Lootnant made about R2800 monthly, about $400.
I took leave to the US three times. Once escorting the body of my company Sergeant home, another time for bereavement leave. The final time I took advantage of being stationed in El Salvador. El Salvador was considered a hardship post because it was so far from South Africa but was a great deal for me. A three hour flight and I was home, I wasn't about to miss out on that!
Reddite igitur quae sunt Caesaris Caesari et quae sunt Dei Deo
(Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things which are God's)Comment
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I hear that "dragon skin" is the best thing out now, interceptor is good but dragon skin offers more protection. Though I have to admit interceptor is far better than that ceramic crap we used to have!Comment
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Kevin,Originally posted by Kevin711 View Post
That myth got debunked last year. Dragon Skin falls apart in the heat and fails."So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3Comment
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