Contradiction on E Timor clashes

[Ray]

Contradiction on E Timor clashes


Mark Dodd
October 21, 2005

EAST Timor's Foreign Minister, Jose Ramos Horta, denied yesterday that violent border clashes in the country's northwest were linked to former pro-Indonesian militia - directly contradicting the head of national security and his own complaints to the UN mission in Dili.

Mr Ramos Horta said violence in the troubled Oecussi region was the result of civilian disputes over land and was not caused by pro-Indonesian militia. But a UN cable obtained by The Australian cites a furious Mr Ramos Horta blaming a series of border incidents on former militia and Indonesian troops.

And East Timor's head of national security, Ricardo Ribeiro, said yesterday that the border "problem has been a small escalation by ex-militia".

"They are from the Oecussi area and are now living in the border area," he said.

The violence has scuttled two-party talks to secure agreement on a crucial border demarcation for the enclave.

The code cable - sent on Monday by the UN's chief in East Timor, Sukehiro Hasegawa, to New York-based head of peacekeeping operations Jean Marie Guehenno - says Mr Ramos Horta threatened to pull out of the East Timor-Indonesia Commission on Truth and Friendship because of recent militia-instigated violence.

Earlier this month, a notorious militia leader, Moko Soares - also known as Okto - was identified as stoking conflict along the border on the eve of the boundary talks, which are now suspended indefinitely.

In the most serious clash, last Saturday, two East Timorese border police were injured and fired 15 warning shots after coming under attack by a mob of 200 Indonesian villagers armed with stones and improvised weapons.

The UN cable says Indonesian troops had actively encouraged the incident - a claim that appears to be backed by Mr Ramos Horta's reported complaints to Mr Hasegawa.

"He (Mr Ramos Horta) felt that the Indonesian villagers were clearly instigated by the former militias and some of the local TNI (Indonesian military) soldiers and that these facts should be made known to the international community," Mr Hasegawa wrote.

"He even told me that TL (East Timor) would pull out of the CTF if the Indonesians continue to misbehave." In his concluding remarks to New York, Mr Hasegawa warns: "The discussions I held with the Timorese and Indonesian sides highlighted the fragile state of peace and stability along the border areas of Oecussi."

Last night Mr Ramos Horta, Mr Hasegawa and other diplomats were travelling to Oecussi to assess the situation.

"I really trust and am convinced that the Indonesian authorities, especially the leadership of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, are together with us in trying to calm down the tension in Oecussi," Mr Ramos Horta said in a statement.

He had contacted his Indonesian counterpart, Hasan Wirayuda, over the matter and was "satisfied" with their discussion.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer described the incidents as nothing more than a dispute between Indonesian and East Timorese farmers. He was unaware of any TNI involvement.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E31477,00.html

If this is true, then does this mean that the whole issue of East Timor was a skullduggery stagemanaged to ensure that Indonesia is cut down to size and not pose a threat to Australia in some future scenario?

International politics does stink.

[Sameer]

No kidding but pardon my ignorance what kind of rivalry does Indonesia and Australia have?


Australiatourists travel in the thousands to that country.

[platinum786]

its the same reason the US doesn't want communists in it's back yard they wan all the infleunce, Oz think just because the british exported all the criminals in the UK there, they are a real country and deserve sole power over the region, Ray will be able to explain this better in military terms...

Oz should watch out, 5-10 years time, Indonesia with a slightly better navy and SU-30 and a bit more money, might want E.Tmor back.

[667medic]

Oz should watch out, 5-10 years time, Indonesia with a slightly better navy and SU-30 and a bit more money, might want E.Tmor back.

Sure why not, Oz will wait for the next million years for it to happen....

[Srirangan]

No kidding but pardon my ignorance what kind of rivalry does Indonesia and Australia have?


Australiatourists travel in the thousands to that country.

Immigration and piracy are the two main issues. And ofcourse the Anglosphere v/s Islam rivalry.

[Parihaka]

No kidding but pardon my ignorance what kind of rivalry does Indonesia and Australia have?

Control of the Oil resources in the Timorese Sea

[troung]

If this is true, then does this mean that the whole issue of East Timor was a skullduggery stagemanaged to ensure that Indonesia is cut down to size and not pose a threat to Australia in some future scenario?

Nope to be able to arm twist a very small East Timor into turning over control over more oil then a large Indonesia would...

Cutting people down to size would not involve reconginzing their take over in the first place and contuined support for their government in keeping the nation together...

Oz should watch out, 5-10 years time, Indonesia with a slightly better navy and SU-30 and a bit more money, might want E.Tmor back.

Doubt it... taking it the first time was not fun, holding it was not fun, taking it again could cause all types of sanctions, and Indonesia has other fish to fry...

And ofcourse the Anglosphere v/s Islam rivalry.

Relax not everything has to do with Islam...

EAST Timor's Foreign Minister, Jose Ramos Horta, denied yesterday that violent border clashes in the country's northwest were linked to former pro-Indonesian militia - directly contradicting the head of national security and his own complaints to the UN mission in Dili.

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer described the incidents as nothing more than a dispute between Indonesian and East Timorese farmers. He was unaware of any TNI involvement.

[Sameer]

So its about the usual

Islamaphobia to be followed by a little dose of oil to be followed by an even bigger dose of who has the biggest penis. :)

[Ray]

I started this post for my Ozzie friend and he seems to least interested in participating.

It is again left to the Pakistanis and Indians and the mistaken Indian Parihaka.

Watch out, our Ozzie friend will bounce back and say that this thread has been hijacked by the Indians and Pakistanis. ;)

That apart, this part of the globe does have great significance as a launch pad.

[Selective]

I started this post for my Ozzie friend and he seems to least interested in participating.

lol sry.

If this is true, then does this mean that the whole issue of East Timor was a skullduggery stagemanaged to ensure that Indonesia is cut down to size and not pose a threat to Australia in some future scenario?

International politics does stink.

East Timor wasn’t staged. They had an election and voted yes to independence which provoked the pro Indonesian militia to run riot backed by the TNI. Indonesia did it to themselves by creating such cluster fuk. We came in and cleaned up the mess.

It’s often stated by different aust governments that they don’t want to see the break-up of indonesia. The idea of a Yugoslavian style civil war in our back yard is disturbing. Besides.. It’s easier for us to deal with just one fat cat with regards to politics and strategic resources in our region. To prove my point, It's always been known, over the decades, what indonesian para-miltary organisations have been doing in the separatist regions. Tho aust has stayed out.

its the same reason the US doesn't want communists in it's back yard they wan all the infleunce, Oz think just because the british exported all the criminals in the UK there, they are a real country and deserve sole power over the region, Ray will be able to explain this better in military terms...

Oz should watch out, 5-10 years time, Indonesia with a slightly better navy and SU-30 and a bit more money, might want E.Tmor back.

You know nothing.

No kidding but pardon my ignorance what kind of rivalry does Indonesia and Australia have?

Immigration and piracy are the two main issues. And ofcourse the Anglosphere v/s Islam rivalry.

Neither are rivalries. Although the continuing illegal fishing incidents are seen as an issue.

"Anglosphere v/s Islam" isn’t a rivalry between the two countries. If it was.. we would have sent troops to many more regions within the country dozens of times more.

Control of the Oil resources in the Timorese Sea

Not anymore.

[Ray]

"Anglosphere v/s Islam" isn’t a rivalry between the two countries. If it was.. we would have sent troops to many more regions within the country dozens of times more.

Interesting point.

What is the strength of your Army?

How many combat Divisions or even Brigades Australia has?

[Officer of Engineers]

Interesting point.

What is the strength of your Army?

How many combat Divisions or even Brigades Australia has?

Sir,

Australia (and Canada) cannot (actually will not) afford a single combat division. Australia could probably field two divisions if she calls up all the reserves but both countries have long since lost divisional staff.