Pakistan's Dharna (Sit-in protest) to get drone attacks stopped

[Asim Aquil]

I realize its been a while since I posted here and it probably doesn't go down well with acceptable forum etiquettes to do this, however the message I bring forward today, is something I believe is my duty to educate all those who would listen and learn.

Today in Karachi in a few hours the second Drone Dharna would be concluded where the Nato supply route to Afghanistan has been blocked, albeit symbolically since there are no Nato trucks enroute to Afghanistan on Saturday and Sunday.

The effort is to get ourselves noticed by the American and Pakistani public who are being lied to by our respective governments on the efficacy and the sanity of attacking tribal areas in the manner they are doing so right now - especially through the Drone Attacks.

A little background about the group leading the protest:

Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI): Pakistan Movement for Justice.

PTI is led by the infamous former Pakistani cricketer, Imran Khan



Imran Khan first gave his service to Pakistan in 1992 when he won the Cricket World Cup as the Pakistan team captain. Later on he went onto building the Shaukat Khanum Cancer hospital which provides free Cancer treatment for Pakistanis.

He then joined politics forming PTI about 15 years ago. At that time Pakistan's politics was dominated by the development of the nuclear bomb, the development of Ballistic missiles... Imran came to the scene proclaiming Pakistan's fundamental problem is that there is no justice in Pakistan and this would give people an outlet into terrorism if left unchecked. Hence the Movement for Justice.

The PTI argument against Drones:

1. It is illegal to kill tribal people without judicial process. Before 9/11 the charge of terrorism was seen so high in Pakistan that come what may, the person would be in Pakistani courts within 24 hours. We must opt to try more and more terrorists in Pakistani courts who are one of the only institutions in Pakistan who have some reputation in Pakistan.

2. It is impossible to know for sure only terrorists are being killed by these missile attacks. Imran Khan took up the cause against drone attacks after he had returned from the site of these attacks and found women and children gutted as a consequence of an extremely botched attempt.

3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them. This view of Americans generally does not end up discouraging terrorists in the Pathan culture. They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis.

Out of these Dharnas we want to accomplish two things. End Pakistan government's hypocrisy whereby they keep issue statements and the parliament actually passes resolutions resulting in nothing. The Match is clearly fixed between Government of Pakistan and the USG. The other thing we really desperately want is for the American public to take a more active role in critiquing the deaths in Pakistan. You started the war after 3000 deaths. Pakistan's dead now exceed 34,000 civilians and 5000 soldiers.

In true free and fair elections, Imran Khan is the true representative of Pakistan. The current leaders ....

I have to cut this short, there are reports of 10-15 bomb blasts in Karachi (most probably near the PAF base) and gun fire has ensued. The stage where Imran Khan was giving his address from is being searched for bombs now.

You can't make this stuff up.

[Parihaka]

Thousands protest against US drone attacks in Pakistan
(

AFP) – 2 hours ago
KARACHI — Thousands demonstrated in Karachi on Sunday to demand an immediate end to US missile strikes in Pakistan's lawless tribal areas and urge the blocking of NATO supplies passing through the country.
Activists from the Tehreek-e-Insaf (Movement for Justice) continued a two-day sit-in outside the city's Arabian Sea port, urging the government to end its cooperation with Washington's "war on terror".
"It is not Pakistan's war, this is America's war. This war has killed thousands of innocent Pakistanis, women and children," the group's leader and former cricketer Imran Khan told the gathering of around 7,000 supporters.
Karachi is Pakistan's economic hub, home to its stock exchange and a lifeline for a depressed economy wilting under inflation and stagnating foreign investment.
The city, the country's largest, is important to logistical support for NATO forces fighting against Taliban militants in Afghanistan.
"There was not a single Taliban militant in Pakistan before 9/11 but since we joined this war, we are facing acts of terrorism, bombing and drone strikes," Khan said.
The demonstrators chanted anti-US slogans and carried banners and placards reading "Death for America" and "Stop drone strikes in Pakistan".
Khan said the US drone strikes were creating "suicide bombing factories" and urged the government to stop taking foreign aid.
"These attacks are against Pakistan's interests. I ask the government to stop NATO supplies via Pakistan, but I am sure they can't, because these shame-proof rulers are getting dollars," he said.
NATO supply trucks, oil tankers and equipment required by coalition troops in Afghanistan are shipped through Pakistan, although US troops increasingly use alternative routes through central Asia.
The US drone strikes are deeply unpopular among the Pakistani public, who see foreign military action on Pakistani soil as a violation of national sovereignty.
Pakistan has officially protested to the United States that the strikes violate its sovereignty, although some officials have said there is a tacit understanding between the two militaries allowing such action.

[Asim Aquil]

Sorry I had to leave earlier, as far as terrorist attacks go, yesterday's attack was a biggie. There was some disruption to the Dharna, but Imran Khan's main address had almost concluded. Most TV channels cut off his address as soon as he raised criticisms of the army chief.

He raised the question to COAS if the unarmed Chechen family the army killed was any other western country's foreigners, would the world have left you?

YouTube - ‪IMRAN'S Speech p 3, may22, 2011‬‏
(for those that can understand urdu)

Anyway, this declaration was passed yesterday

Karachi Declaration

May 22, 2011

The massive participation of people from all walks of life in the Karachi Dharna is proof that the people of Pakistan are united in their efforts to regain the lost national sovereignty, an end to the murderous drone attacks, and stop the double faced politics practiced by the ruling party and the so called opposition in parliament.

The Karachi Dharna condemns the continuing drone attacks in the face of the Joint Resolution of the Parliament which was yet another attempt to hoodwink the people by the present day Mir Jafars and Mir Sadiqs.

The Dharna passed the following resolution:

1. To free Pakistan from foreign domination and the stooges that rules us.

2. It demands the resignation of the government for its failure to protect the fundamental rights of the people including the right to life and security.

3. It demands the cancellation of all 7,000 visas issued without security clearance and the expulsion of all private US security contractors within 7 days. If the government fails to expel the private security contractors within one week, the PTI would expose the residences of the private security contractors in all major cities of Pakistan.

4. It resolves to block NATO supply routes in different parts of the country without any prior notice.

5. To hold a national convention in Islamabad to unite and mobilize all segments of society against the present government.

6. The PTI calls on the Army Generals to live up to their oath to protect the life and property of Pakistanis against any foreign force that breaches our sovereignty.

7. To hold a Dharna for an indefinite period in front of the Parliament house in Islamabad. The date of the Dharna would be announced soon.

Moreover there is another Dharna planned in Multan, then Lahore and then finally an indefinite, perpetual Dharna in Islamabad till the government doesn't quit.

The issue I was raising yesterday about free and fair elections. CEC has been directed by the supreme court to nullify the seats of all those who came to power through fraudulent votes. SC has found that 44% of the votes are from non-existent voters. Given that the turnout in the 2008 elections was 30% (due to bomb threats and extremely poor polling booth security marred by gun violence), in a country of 160 Mn, the people in power are there with less that 9Mn votes.

It was not an easy 2 days. Somebody blew up a Nato oil Truck in a crowded area... Then someone burned down Geo TV's GHQ News room, crippling their ability to cover the event, then the government shut down their most profit making channel, Geo Super (sports channel), then the attack on the PAF base in the same city as the Dharna.

But it went on and registered its protest.

Just to help you guys relate how significant this was... It was much like Obama's victory day, where the people just wanted the day to go on and on as it was a sign that Pakistanis can still want and struggle for their freedom.










Those are PTI flags

[Asim Aquil]

Go America, Go should not be mistaken with the American colloquialism of "Go something, go" as a cheering on. But it was coined when in the remove Musharraf movement where the term Go Musharraf Go was coined. Also of course, this only implies to the heavy USG presence not the common people.



A lot more pictures there:
DHARNA official pictures!! | Facebook

Next as I will update you all on the issue of US Aid that was a recurring point raised by all the speakers at the Dharna. I will do that shortly today.

The speakers, the more prominent ones were the ones not even from PTI. Their parties, the rulers and allies of the rulers were against this Dharna. However they came here to speak up in a form of rebellion from their parties.

[Dreadnought]

2. It demands the resignation of the government for its failure to protect the fundamental rights of the people including the right to life and security.


*I guess by stating this they seem willing to ignore the groups in their country that breech this very same demand by attacking other nations right to life and security.

Good luck with that demand not to mention favorable results.

[Dreadnought]

6. The PTI calls on the Army Generals to live up to their oath to protect the life and property of Pakistanis against any foreign force that breaches our sovereignty.

When you have elements within your own forces that know terror exists and is exported then this is a moot demand. As you can see by the last few days attacks on their own soil.

[S2]

Asim Aquil Reply

"1. It is illegal to kill tribal people without judicial process."

Tribal peoples are not the target of drone strikes. Enemy combatants against Afghanistan whom use Pakistani lands are the targets along with the foreign A.Q. associates.

"2. It is impossible to know for sure only terrorists are being killed by these missile attacks. Imran Khan took up the cause against drone attacks after he had returned from the site of these attacks and found women and children gutted as a consequence of an extremely botched attempt."

This is true. However, Imran Khan is quite, quite slow to the trigger as these attacks have occurred since Nek Mohammad's killing in June of 2002.

"3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them."

It is absolutely NOT a strategy to kill the innocent family members of terrorists and enemy combatants. OTOH, these same enemy combatants make war upon Afghanistan and are responsible according to the U.N. and the Afghan Independant Human Rights Commission for the deaths of 75% of all Afghans in 2011-men, women and children.

Pakistan REFUSES to attack these men. We and our afghan allies have an absolute legal right to self-defense against such attacks.

"This view of Americans generally does not end up discouraging terrorists in the Pathan culture."

I reject this allegation. See above. Those same pathans live and die in Afghanistan vowing revenge upon their attackers there too.

"...They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis."

Then make war upon these terrorists living among your people and quit drawing distinction between "good" taliban and "bad" taliban. That is, and has been, the calculatedly ignored responsibility of the Pakistani government and military for reasons of "strategic depth" since 2002. It is unacceptable.

People like Imran Khan and too many others within Pakistan have studiously ignored the suffering to the afghan people that's been the consequence of harboring these men upon your lands.

To that end, they serve the designs of the Pakistani masters who wish to make proxy war upon Afghanistan while selectively employing drone attacks to remove their own enemies.

[Chogy]

Basically it boils down to this - if Pakistan will not cleanse herself of extremists, madrassas that preach "death to the infidels", and thus obtain a body count and judicial process that is acceptable, then we will do it ourselves, and the results may not be as clean or selective as the people of Pakistan desire.

It goes without saying that innocents are mourned... but they are not the targets.

[Dreadnought]

3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them. This view of Americans generally does not end up discouraging terrorists in the Pathan culture. They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis.

*IMO, It should not be acceptable that these terrorists can even EXIST. I'm sure that it is all nice and politically correct to say the above but do you really believe that they will not be targeted where they believe they are safe. Pretty much calling the kettle black when it comes to those they attack in their homes and places of work.

This is not some childs game where there is some "safe zone".

These terrorists target the innocent and their families as well as the military and then are some how to be considered off limits after killing others?

What ever happened to keeping your OWN family safe and those responsibilites?

If you want to keep them safe (as most men want to) then its pretty simple. DONT BE A TERRORIST! and DONT SUPPORT THEIR ACTIVITIES! And if you are and you choose too then dont be around your family because you will not be safe and you will be hunted and targeted irregardless of what any politics say.

"3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them."

Extremely unfair? Hows about the people killed that have nothing to do with this whatsoever?

How about those in different countries, how about those in your own dam country?

Is that not extremely unfair? Its also not acceptable in any civilized world to let these groups train and exist on your soil knowing they attack others in other countries. But yet you do.

And this dumb shit thinks nothing will happen in return when these groups launch attacks?


They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis

A cop out, destroy the groups and dont allow them to exist on your soil and you wont have these problems but dont blame Americans for having to do your job when it is required because you refuse to do it yourself.

I guess this guy thinks that all the countries of NATO and others just enjoy throwing money away to come over there and hunt terror. You dont think we have better things to do with that money?

Heres a thought....Why not just tell the truth to the people, apparently they value your opinion so why not be straight down the line with them instead of the bullshit that you know will not change anything nor make their lives any easier.

Drop the "soverignty" and "political correctness bullshit" and just tell the people the truth.

Plain, Simple and obviously UNPOPULAR!

[astralis]

good ol' Pakistan. a lovely combination of denialism, conspiracy, blame-shifting, and wilful ignorance/blindness.

[Red Seven]

The occasional Drone strike is among the least of Pakistan's problems. Nice to see some people there who can get together and actually agree about something, but the things you choose to agree about are just more evidence of Pakistan's confusion with regard to its national identity and priorities. I'm not trying to insult Pakistanis but your country seems to have no clear sense of direction. You're like a bunch of stirred up subatomic particles crashing in to one another, everybody pulling a different way, skimming off in opposite directions. Some of you hate India, some of you hate America, some of you hate yourselves. Your government says it's fighting terrorists and yet seems to aid and abet them at the same time. You express outrage that a small force of Americans came into your country and executed the world's most notorious international criminal and mass-murderer when you should be outraged that he was living amongst you for years in relative comfort and security. You pour into the street to condemn America when you should be pouring into the street to protest the myriad internal issues that plague your nation far more than some drone strikes in the mountains.

[Double Edge]

A bit surprised to see you pushing Imran here, Asim. Doesn't Imran not have much support to begin with in Pakistan.

He appears often here on newshows. Recall him recently saying that Zardari's govt is a puppet govt but you did have free & fair elections at the time so why did he say that then. He lost big time in those.

How can you be sure things will be any different if he gets into office as even he will still be subordinate to the military whether he likes it or not.

Won't repeat what others have already rightly said about this Karachi declaration. It sugercoats a lot. Seems like the dharna's got upstaged by the Mehran strike.

A Pakistani spring this is not because you're still pointing fingers outwards (how convenient) instead of inwards.

[gunnut]

3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them. This view of Americans generally does not end up discouraging terrorists in the Pathan culture. They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis.

I have some questions. I understand it's not acceptable to kill terrorists' family and neighbor to demoralize them. Is it acceptable to kill them because they provide support for the terrorists' activities? Providing support means they have involved themselves in the terrorists' activities and therefore "combatants" against their targets. They are now part of the game.

Drones are good. If drone attacks are stopped, you would face JDAMs (much larger), carbet bombings (much, much larger) or American troops on the ground. We're sure none of us want to see these things happen.

[zraver]

The PTI argument against Drones:

1. It is illegal to kill tribal people without judicial process. Before 9/11 the charge of terrorism was seen so high in Pakistan that come what may, the person would be in Pakistani courts within 24 hours. We must opt to try more and more terrorists in Pakistani courts who are one of the only institutions in Pakistan who have some reputation in Pakistan.

Not for the US it isn't, the drone strikes are legal from a LOAC perspective.

2. It is impossible to know for sure only terrorists are being killed by these missile attacks. Imran Khan took up the cause against drone attacks after he had returned from the site of these attacks and found women and children gutted as a consequence of an extremely botched attempt.

You don't need to know for sure only combatants will be killed, only have a reasonable belief that the action wil result in no more incidental damage to non-combatants than is justified by the military goal.

3. The targets sometimes are extremely unfair and inhumane. Sometimes the intel IS there that this is a terrorists' hideout, however, it is not acceptable in any civilized world to kill the terrorists family, their children and even their neighbors as a strategy to demoralize them. This view of Americans generally does not end up discouraging terrorists in the Pathan culture. They vow revenge. As a consequence that the poor tribal people can't do anything against Americans, they go after the next best thing - Pakistanis.

BS, the US has not killed a single family member of a single terrorist. The terrorists who decides to bring his way of life home with him kills his family. The answer is quite simple- if terrorist stop hiding among family, family will not die. Oh and pashtun culture needs not be respected, they harbor murderers and call it good. The pashtun code has no real honor as it places hospitality to evil over hospitality to justice. The same people the pashtuns hide in Pakistan kill fellow Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan among many other victims. They launch attacks in violation of accepted standards of normalcy both secular and religious. The Pashtuns choose to be party to evil.

You started the war after 3000 deaths. Pakistan's dead now exceed 34,000 civilians and 5000 soldiers.

Almost all killed by fellow Pakistanis who would murder thier own countrymen to advance the cause of Arab jihadist who seek the abject slavery of everyone who is not an Arab male wahabi. The Arab Jihadists have turned thousands of Pashtuns into slave soilders, not for allah, not for the ummah but for power.

How many pakistanis have been killed by Pashtuns in service to thier Arab Jihadist masters?
How many of those Arab Jihadist have sent food, medical personal, shelter to areas devestated by earthquakes and floods?
How many of those Arab Jihadist have provided well pumps, generators, road building, and schools that teach one how to learn rather than how to obey?

[Asim Aquil]

Arguments noted. I will answer them in detail today.

For now I would like to point to the next big Drones Dharna Event - outside British Parliament 25th May, 2011. 1pm to 4pm, right when President Obama would be addressing the British Parliament. Those who can please join in, if for nothing else, just to be educated on the matter and gauge the very genuine personal feelings of a common Pakistani.