Liberalism as pragmatism

[Roosveltrepub]

New haven where I live got villified a few years ago for giving out identity cards w/o proof of citizenship. The pragmatic reason being the publicsafety issue created when those residing in the city have to carry all cash and are reluctant to risk reporting crimes due to status. It creates a public safety issue for citizens like me

A week ago the city unveiled a new merit pay system for Teachers. Since the city is clearly not anti union the Teacher's were more willing to take the arguments at face value rather than see it as aUnion busting tool.

Today, it was announced the mayor had recieved a commitment to provide every child who graduates with a 3.0 from public schools a full ride to any state or community college or 2500 toward any private non profit college

Now the second and third things I listed are the types of things conservatives call for. A push to tie pay to performance and a synergy between the public and private sector to give the less fortunate a hand up not a hand out.

Are these the types of programs everyone likes? Does the fact the most liberal city in one of if not the most liberal states pushing these ideas mean maybe just maybe some of the extremist stuff I've read about Democrats being the party of foodstamps and entitlements are caracatures?
Go Mayor Destephano...now onward to crush Lieberman in 2 years!

[highsea]

So the reason for providing ID to illegals was because they carry a lot of cash around? How does that make them reluctant to report crime? And how does that endanger you?

Merit pay for teachers- good thing.

"Free college"- who pays?

[Wooglin]

I don't see how allowing people to obtain an ID card and open a bank account in any name they want as being very "pragmatic".

[Roosveltrepub]

So the reason for providing ID to illegals was because they carry a lot of cash around? How does that make them reluctant to report crime? And how does that endanger you?

Merit pay for teachers- good thing.

"Free college"- who pays?

Yale University and a private non profit are picking up the tuition tab. The primary motivation for the ID card was so those residents could open bank accounts so, illegal families in poor neighborhoods weren't as tempting a target and so they had some kind of ID when interacting with police. Honestly, if you take a breath you will at least understand why that is a benefit for citizens like me living in walking distance to poor sections because I want to be near the vibrant downtown new haven still offers. It's not like they weren't already here.

I think what stands out here is a very liberal Mayor achieved merit pay concessions from the Unions followed by free tuition promises from a private entity with a vested interest in a wealthier city.

Seems to me Teacher union concessions and the willingness to spend the energy chasing that tuition cash are " only Nixon could go to China" moments for a liberal democrat Mayor.

[highsea]

Yale University and a private non profit are picking up the tuition tab.

Didn't know Yale was awash in money, but maybe they are. Seems to me that the cost will ultimately be shifted back on those paying tuition.

The primary motivation for the ID card was so those residents could open bank accounts so, illegal families in poor neighborhoods weren't as tempting a target and so they had some kind of ID when interacting with police.

On one hand they are poor, on the other hand they are carrying around large amounts of cash?

I'm just trying to understand your thinking- You think this will make them less reluctant to report crimes?

Honestly, if you take a breath you will at least understand why that is a benefit for citizens like me living in walking distance to poor sections because I want to be near the vibrant downtown new haven still offers. It's not like they weren't already here.

Well, I am breathing fine, I don't know where you live or in what proximity to anything else. If you think giving illegals ID will make your streets safer, that's fine by me.

Then again, it might just invite more of them into your neighborhood, guess we'll wait and see.

I think what stands out here is a very liberal Mayor achieved merit pay concessions from the Unions followed by free tuition promises from a private entity with a vested interest in a wealthier city.

merit pay is a good thing, I already said.

So who is the private non-profit entity?

[Roosveltrepub]

Didn't know Yale was awash in money, but maybe they are. Seems to me that the cost will ultimately be shifted back on those paying tuition.

On one hand they are poor, on the other hand they are carrying around large amounts of cash?

I'm just trying to understand your thinking- You think this will make them less reluctant to report crimes?
Well, I am breathing fine, I don't know where you live or in what proximity to anything else. If you think giving illegals ID will make your streets safer, that's fine by me.

Then again, it might just invite more of them into your neighborhood, guess we'll wait and see.
merit pay is a good thing, I already said.

So who is the private non-profit entity?

Having known large quantities of cash and the inability to contact Police makes illegals targets for crime. Increased crime is bad for all. I actually live in what's called the Yale ghetto...if you consider 750k three family homes ghetto... Like most cities it's a brief walk from poor to rich sections. I'd suggust you google New Haven promise for the details. It's yale University another local non profit ponying up.

I dare say many here would not believe liberal mayors would pursue merit pay or private public partnerships. What a great one two punch to afford locals w/o means a hand up not a hand out.

[troung]

those residents could open bank accounts so, illegal families in poor neighborhoods weren't as tempting a target and so they had some kind of ID when interacting with police.

Interaction should be limited to throwing those bastards out of America

[dalem]

Having known large quantities of cash and the inability to contact Police makes illegals targets for crime.

They already ARE crime.

-dale

[Blue]

New Haven CT? Colt, Marlin and Wincester are all based there or near there. New Haven is the cradle for firearms mfgs. Go buy one of thier guns and carry it. You'll feel safer, support your community and make all those illegals feel safer if you only go down and habla your intentions in thier communidad with them.;)

[Roosveltrepub]

New Haven CT? Colt, Marlin and Wincester are all based there or near there. New Haven is the cradle for firearms mfgs. Go buy one of thier guns and carry it. You'll feel safer, support your community and make all those illegals feel safer if you only go down and habla your intentions in thier communidad with them.;)

I feel safe. The unreported crime on illegals grows the thugcracy. Most of the gun manufacuring is long gone the only signifigant manufacturing left is a thriving tool making industry the brass boom left, some high end biotech and high tech high end manufacturing of the type I do. So, hatred of the ID card aside would you of thought a liberal mayor in a liberal city would get merit pay concessions from the teachers and spend a year pumping the private sector to create a k-16 school system for those who are willing to commit? Isn't this type of synergy between public schools- teacher concessions and private investment the very thing so many of you say is the conservative answer?

[Roosveltrepub]

They already ARE crime.

-dale

agreed but no benefit to fostering a violent crime element by making them silent victims

[Wooglin]

agreed but no benefit to fostering a violent crime element by making them silent victims

What is the benefit of allowing someone to open a bank account (thus obtain credit cards) in any name they'd like? I don't see how making identitiy theft easier is very pragmatic.

As for the title of this thread regarding issues 2 and 3, you seem to have it backwards. If these measures are things that conservatives call for then they are obviously conservative ideas, not an example of liberalism as pragmatism. Apparently it's an example of what you label a liberal mayor employing conservative ideas...hardly an endorsement for liberalism, and apparently an example of conservatism as pragmatism - at least as you are describing it.

Why did they move to merit pay btw? Apparently 1 in 5 people in New Haven is employed by the educational system...was it becoming unsustainable or do the schools just suck?

[Roosveltrepub]

What is the benefit of allowing someone to open a bank account (thus obtain credit cards) in any name they'd like? I don't see how making identitiy theft easier is very pragmatic.

As for the title of this thread regarding issues 2 and 3, you seem to have it backwards. If these measures are things that conservatives call for then they are obviously conservative ideas, not an example of liberalism as pragmatism. Apparently it's an example of what you label a liberal mayor employing conservative ideas...hardly an endorsement for liberalism, and apparently an example of conservatism as pragmatism - at least as you are describing it.

Why did they move to merit pay btw? Apparently 1 in 5 people in New Haven is employed by the educational system...was it becoming unsustainable or do the schools just suck?

I think your numbers are funky. Your source must be including employment at the three major Universities and the teaching hospitals. I said liberalism because conservatives talk a good game but have never delivered anything like this that I am aware of. I'd think it would be the type of idea conservatives would be attracted to and perhaps emulate.

[gunnut]

New Haven CT? Colt, Marlin and Wincester are all based there or near there. New Haven is the cradle for firearms mfgs. Go buy one of thier guns and carry it. You'll feel safer, support your community and make all those illegals feel safer if you only go down and habla your intentions in thier communidad with them.;)

Got me a Winchester 1894 Trapper in 357 magnum. I have to go home and check to see if it was actually made in New Haven, CT. It was made just a few years before Winchester shut down.

[Wooglin]

I think your numbers are funky. Your source must be including employment at the three major Universities and the teaching hospitals. I said liberalism because conservatives talk a good game but have never delivered anything like this that I am aware of. I'd think it would be the type of idea conservatives would be attracted to and perhaps emulate.

I got the data from here: New Haven, Connecticut (CT) profile: population, maps, real estate, averages, homes, statistics, relocation, travel, jobs, hospitals, schools, crime, moving, houses, sex offenders, news, sex offenders

It may well include universities and such. Probably does.

Personally, if it works I don't care who implemented it, and if a private entity wants to fund tuitions more power to them.

You didn't answer my question though. What prompted the push for merit pay? Was it getting stuck with tenured, overpaid teachers or does the school system suck or some combination? We have similar issues here in NJ (and a similar high property tax burden though ours is a bit more ridiculous), so I'm wondering what pushed it?