HOME INVASION - Last night!!!

[antimony]

I was wondering where I would put this thread, in the pub or in the Small Arms section.

Last night is something that I will remember for a long time. It was my first brush with a possibly dangerous scenario in the US. Someone tried to break into our home, here is the full story.

I was working late last night. My wife and daughter had gone off to bed when I head a male voice. I came out into a living room and peeked out of the kitchen window (which has a view outside). I saw a man knocking on the door. I opened the door and the security chain (my first, really stupid nmistake) and asked him what he wanted. I could
tell from his breath and demeanor that he was drunk. He asked me my name. I told him and he kept asking repeatedly. Then he mentioned something about him wanting to help out a waitress friend of his and how we as Indians would not be helping her. This is a sentence he repeated once or twice and then asked me my name again. Then he some rot about my wife.
At that point, his foot was on the doorstep. I pushed him out and shut the door and asked my wife to call 911.

I locked the door without putting in the security chain too. Thankfully my wife noticed it and put it back on.

So now I am on the phone talking to the person who took up the 911 call. and this guy pushes in violently on the door. It is then that I realize that I had not actually managed to lock the door, and it was the flimsy security chain that was keping this guy outside. I pushed back hard against the door and told my wife to fetch a big stick. But he already had his hand inside and was trying to open the security chain. This is where I got really concerned. I was trying to think if I should bash his hand with the stick that my wife brought (really a very large chunk of wood, would have crushed his fingers), when I saw someone from the nieghbouring condo come out and talk to the guy.

By then, I had managed to push out his hand and had locked the door, for real this time. I was still on call with 911 line, when I saw from my kitchen window the guy coming back. From what I could gather, I think he was challenging me to call the police. He was also repeatedly reading out our address (marked outside the door). I was shouting at him to go away.

All this while I was on the phone with 911 so I think this conversation may have been recorded. After some time this person went away and the police arrive a few minutes later. The officer told me that this was a drunk guy who also lived in the condo complex. He had had a tiff with his wife and a drink too many which led him to this state. He took statements from us and later told us that the guy was belliegrent enough to get arrested for drunken behaviour and tresspasssing. He kept assuring us that this guy was really not dangerous, just a belligerant drunk.

After all of this, I was left wondering about the course of actions that I had undertaken, opening the door to a stranger:madder:, not locking the door properly even after an altercation:madder:, not striking back with force even during a break in attempt.

The lessons from the first two, I hope, would be ingrained in the form of better security practices henceforth, but what about the last one?

While that guy was forcing his way in and was trying to open the security chain from the outside I could have stabbed his hand with a kitchen knife or broken it with my heavy stick. My course of action as it happened was to try and just get the guy out without applying any painful force. How wise was that?

In retrospect, this course of action was probably the best. Nothing happened to us, and the guy would probably get enough of a slap on the wrist to be careful going forwards. But what if this guy was a murderous brute bent on doing us harm? Then my mistakes may well have been deadly. I now need to reconsider these. I hope I never have to go through this agian, but I sure as hell want to prepare myself for it. We are going to check out some non-lethal deterrance like pepper spray and the like as well as strenghthen our home with stronger locks etc.

On the bright side, this may well be my last chance to get my wife into guns and my excuse to actually buy one.

[USSWisconsin]

It sounds like you were very lucky, in many ways - the person didn't get in, they didn't really want to get into your house, you didn't have to use force or injure the POS, the POS knew the Police and they were sympathetic to him - but you didn't hurt him so it didn't matter.

It is a very difficult thing to decide when to use force and how much when someone tries to break in, guns are often turned on thier owners when then those owners aren't fully prepared to use them - even if they do use them effectively, there are normally serious consequences.

[YellowFever]

3 things you did wrong, the first two you recognized (opening the door, not locking the door properly).

The third thing you did wrong was to contemplate hitting his hand when it was stuck in your doorway.

You should've cracked him in the face.

[Blademaster]

Antimony, file a complaint with the DA, not the police, and file a restraining order against him. This is the first move you need to make to ensure that this guy cannot threaten you or hide behind the police.

And file a civil complaint against him and sue him for intentional tort such as battery and assault. The prospect of facing a civil lawsuit with stiff penalties and fines and attorney fees will scare him.

You need to get a restraining order ASAP. I absolutely ****ing mean it!!! You got all the necessary facts and justification for a restraining order. I say this because the next time this guy violates the restraining order, the police have no choice but to arrest him for violating the restraining order and hold him in jail for a period of time. It puts him on notice and the court don't look kindly on those who violate restraining orders and on police who don't act on restraining orders.

To get a restraining order, go down to the DA's office or police office and file a complaint. Use that complaint as part of affidavit, and file an affidavit from you and your wife testifying to your fear of danger from this guy saying that he hurled epiteths against you and threatened violence against you and did proceed to attempt to use violence against you.

I strongly advise you to consult a lawyer. Oh by the way, if your place is an apartment complex or that guy is renting, complain to that landlord and make it clear that the landlord will be also liable for the actions of the tenant. Hopefully, the landlord will be scared enough to break the lease with the tenant and evict him out in which he can, using the common law provision of endangering the community around you as justifiable cause to break the lease.

Please heed my advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[antimony]

It sounds like you were very lucky

It is a very difficult thing to decide when to use force and how much when someone tries to break in, guns are often turned on thier owners when then those owners aren't fully prepared to use them - even if they do use them effectively, there are normally serious consequences.

You are right, I was indeed lucky. The other thing I realized is that I am absolutely untrained in matters of personal defence. If I was not able to lock a door properly in a nerve wrecking situation I am concerned as to what I would do with a gun. I mean, I have been in scuffles, but always in groups. I really need some training in this.

3 things you did wrong, the first two you recognized (opening the door, not locking the door properly).

The third thing you did wrong was to contemplate hitting his hand when it was stuck in your doorway.

You should've cracked him in the face.

I am thinking about that now. However, I realize that trying to do that would have meant opening the door to him and then butting him in the face. I would have to do that if he managed to get the door open, but at that point I only had his hand to access.

[antimony]

Antimony, file a complaint with the DA, not the police, and file a restraining order against him. This is the first move you need to make to ensure that this guy cannot threaten you or hide behind the police.

And file a civil complaint against him and sue him for intentional tort such as battery and assault. The prospect of facing a civil lawsuit with stiff penalties and fines and attorney fees will scare him.

You need to get a restraining order ASAP. I absolutely ****ing mean it!!! You got all the necessary facts and justification for a restraining order. I say this because the next time this guy violates the restraining order, the police have no choice but to arrest him for violating the restraining order and hold him in jail for a period of time. It puts him on notice and the court don't look kindly on those who violate restraining orders and on police who don't act on restraining orders.

To get a restraining order, go down to the DA's office or police office and file a complaint. Use that complaint as part of affidavit, and file an affidavit from you and your wife testifying to your fear of danger from this guy saying that he hurled epiteths against you and threatened violence against you and did proceed to attempt to use violence against you.

I strongly advise you to consult a lawyer. Oh by the way, if your place is an apartment complex or that guy is renting, complain to that landlord and make it clear that the landlord will be also liable for the actions of the tenant. Hopefully, the landlord will be scared enough to break the lease with the tenant and evict him out in which he can, using the common law provision of endangering the community around you as justifiable cause to break the lease.

Please heed my advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hitesh,

The police basically told me to lie low and forget the incident, as in their interpretation this was just another harmless drunk who had had a tiff with his wife and then drunk some more. They did encourage me to call them if this guy bothered me again, but basically told me that this was the last I would hear from him. I have already called the complex management and told thm I want to speak to them.

I am going to heed your advice about a lawyer

Thanks

[Blademaster]

Hitesh,

The police basically told me to lie low and forget the incident, as in their interpretation this was just another harmless drunk who had had a tiff with his wife and then drunk some more. They did encourage me to call them if this guy bothered me again, but basically told me that this was the last I would hear from him. I have already called the complex management and told thm I want to speak to them.

I am going to heed your advice about a lawyer

Thanks

I do not agree with the police's assessment. You are much better off in getting a restraining order. It shows that you are serious and that you are very concerned for your family's well being. I have been drunk many times and I have never come close to the point where I would violently try to attack someone in their home. Being drunk has nothing to do with it. It is his character and nature that has everything to do with it. The police are just being lazy. Get a restraining order asap. You may think I m overreacting but believe me, I am not. You want the law on your side. Attempted home invasion is nothing to sneeze about even if the guy was drunk. The guy crossed a line that he should have not crossed. Period.

[Julie]

He WILL get drunk again, and you might not be home the next time, with your wife and children home alone. Take steps necessary to kill the guy the next time so he won't come back a third time. ;)

[Officer of Engineers]

After all of this, I was left wondering about the course of actions that I had undertaken, opening the door to a stranger:madder:, not locking the door properly even after an altercation:madder:, not striking back with force even during a break in attempt.

If you did not do it in the first place, it is not a good idea to try to become someone you are not. Physically harming a person requires accepting the responsibility of actually harming that person. That will stay with you regardless whether it is justified or not, especially when you've never been trained to do it nor doing it for a while.

I would have had no problems smashing into the door to smash the guy's hand into a million pieces but do you want that image in your mind for weeks? Do you want a mini PTSD? You've been through a tramatic event. It would be more so if you had physically harmed the guy.

Buying a gun may be the wrong move for both you and your wife. You have not grew up with it and the implications. There are those who grew up with guns and know the implications and actually practice for it. 7th and his wife would have no problem planting any idiot into the ground. Can you or your wife live with yourselves after killing someone?

Non-lethal methods may or may nor work but they are no substite for the will to do harm. At this point, I recommend a dog, a big mean, nasty dog that would die defending your family.

[Aussiegunner]

I reckon pepper spray would be a better option for you than a gun.

While I don't think it is wrong to kill somebody breaking into my home, I know that despite 10 years of Kempo and Goju Karate training and 5 years as a soldier, in the self defence situations that I have been in have been naturally hesitant at really hurting somebody, like I have been trained to do. I reckon that I'd have a hard time pulling the trigger and since you didn't even like the idea of smashing a guy's hand, I would suggest that you aren't going to be shooting anybody any time soon either.

The good things about pepper spray is that you know it is temporary, your wife can use it if you aren't home while she might find using a big stick effectively challenging, and your kids aren't going to play with it and accidentally kill themselves like they might with a gun.

[gunnut]

antimony, I'm glad you and your family is OK. That's the most important thing.

Now I have to tell you something you did wrong besides opening the door to a stranger in the middle of the night (sometimes day time too). You relied on that security chain. That thing will never hold up to anyone trying to force his way in. Look at the screws holding on to the chain at the door frame. Even I can put enough force on the door to rip that thing right out.

As for physically hurting the guy, I'm glad you didn't do it. You don't want a law suit on your hands, especially you actually had to think about it. Your hesitation will be used against you in court. It demonstrated that you were not really in fear for your life.

Now...about that Sig P226...:gunut:

Aussie has the right idea...maybe start your self defense arsenal with pepper spray first.

[USSWisconsin]

I wonder how he would have reacted to a bowl full of tabasco sauce in the face, then you could make comments about eating him and fire up your chain saw
warm up the oven dear ,,, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
no sir, just wait . we want to have you for dinner

[antimony]

I wonder how he would have reacted to a bowl full of tabasco sauce in the face, then you could make comments about eating him and fire up your chain saw
warm up the oven dear ,,, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
no sir, just wait . we want to have you for dinner

:roflmao:

Thats brilliant USSWis; I hope the guy as sober enough to get it
But that is a brilliant reason for a chainsaw (not that one needs a reason for one)

[antimony]

Update

We came home this evening and I wanted to thank my neighbour; he is the one who engaged with the guy while he was trying to open the security chain and allowed me to close the door.

He tells me that he saw the guy along with a woman, in the morning, in front of our condo. That tells me two things :

1. Either he wants to apologize for the events last night and he has brought his wife along
2. OR He wants to meet whoever it was that that put him in the locker and shout at them

I called up the police station again and relayed this information. I also told them that I wanted to file a restraining order against this guy. Some 10 minutes later, a police officer arrived. We started discussing what happened, including how to file a restraining order. Then this guys and a woman turns up again. The officer asked them to wait outside and then went out to speak to them.

She (the officer) came back a while later and told us that the guy (and his wife) just wanted to apologize. She had told him we did not need his apologies and that we would be filing an anti-harrassment order aganst him.

So that is what I am going to do over tomorrow or the day after.

OOE,

I was also thinking all of these things. What exactly would I be able to do at that point and what would I be able to live with later.

GN/ Aussie,

The pepper spray is exactly what I am researching now. But this also might be my only chance to actually buy that gun I had been longing for:whome:

You are also right about the security chain. After the altercation I noticed that the screws had nearly come out of the frame and I had to screw it back in. I have some other ideas for securing that door, would take a few visits to the hardware store.

Julie,

I don't know if I can bring myself to do that.

[Blademaster]

Antimony,

You are doing the right thing by going through that process. You may think that you are overreacting, especially when the guy is trying to apologize but I assure you, you are not. You are doing what it takes to lawfully protect your family. Your family comes first, not his request for forgiveness. The courts and the law will respect you for that and so will the police. The very fact that you had to think about buying guns or some sort of protection and ask for advice is enough to tell you that getting a restraining order is not an overreaction. If the guy wants to apologize, he can apologize through a written statement or through the court or an intermediary.

As for getting protection, a baseball bat or a crowbar is usually enough. If you want to get a gun, I strongly advise you to take training classes. I think police offer training classes for a good price. It is well worth it. You may also want to consider self defense classes where in addition to teaching you the moves, they also teach you the mental aspects of staying cool, controlling your emotions and your state to a degree where you can be functional and make decisions on a split second level designed to protect you and your family.