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  • Will Mexico become a failed state?

    While US Focuses on Iraq, Mexico is Collapsing
    Posted June 12, 2005 | 02:20 PM (EST)


    Any political scientist will tell you that the definition of a failed state is where the legitimate authorities have lost both their monopoly over violence and their fiscal effectiveness -- the capacity to compel their subjects to pay enough taxes so the state can function.

    Mexico is a failing state on both counts. While all our attention is focused on Iraq, our neighbor is descending into Hobbesian chaos.

    With democracy, the corruption that had resided within the PRI (Institutional Revolutionary Party) during its 75 years of one party rule has migrated outside the system and become autonomously organized and competitive. This has resulted in the accelerating Colombianization of Mexico, in which the drug gangs and other criminal syndicates fight it out with each other or any state authority that can't be bought off. Witness the bullet riddled body of the new police chief in the border town of Nuevo Laredo who was assassinated last week a mere 6 hours after he took office!

    Further, kidnappings and gunpoint muggings, frequently in collusion with police networks, are rampant in Mexico City and elsewhere. Everyone has a story about being robbed at the ATM machine or about having their watch snatched from their wrist when idling at a stoplight in their car.

    Seeing this enduring lawlessness, others, less organized,do what they have to do to make it in a stagnant economy. Where there is impunity but no opportunity, the Mexican commentator Carlos Monsivais has quipped, everyone becomes an opportunist. This is true from the desperate migrant to the petty street thief to state governors who look the other way to business leaders to the middle class professional who avoids taxes.

    On top of all this, and in part because of it, Mexico is fiscally anemic, collecting the least assessed taxes of any major Latin American state. It has consequently relied on oil revenues to fill the gap, thus robbing itself of the capacity to invest in futher exploration and development of this diminishing resource, which is also drained away by corruption. Last year, $1 billion worth of oil from PEMEX, the state oil monopoly, was stolen! That's on the scale of the UN oil-for-food scandal in Iraq.

    Prohibition of foreign or private investment in the oil sector by the Mexican constitution has meant that proved and projected reserves can't be exploited. They remain in the ground or under the sea.

    In short, Mexico is headed down the tubes. Its failure will spill out all over the US bigtime. We are already awash in the slow tsunami of illegal immigration, which will surely surge further and accelerate.

    And, is there any doubt that the ruthless drug lords along the border who brazenly kill any honest cop or slaughter the wives and children of their rivals will, for the right price, smuggle terrorists and their weapons into the US?

    It doesn't take a futurist or elite study group to see this disastrous writing on the wall. There are visionary political leaders in Mexico like Jorge Castaneda, the first foreign minister under President Fox, who are proposing viable policies such as a North American Energy Security Fund that will both help diminish US reliance on Middle East oil and help development in Mexico.

    But, what US politician is even thinking about these issues? The consequences of collapse in Mexico are far graver for the US than anything that happens in Iraq.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan...aq_b_2522.html

    California, so far from God so close to Mexico ? ;)
    Last edited by Oscar; 24 Nov 08,, 12:53.

  • #2
    Mexico IS a failed state, we need to totally seal off the border with Mexico before their violence and problems spread to the US ... oh wait that already happened

    Pretty soon the federal government will control little more then Mexico City and its suburbs and they have already lost control of Tijuana, Nuevo Laredo, Oxaca, etc

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Guys,

      This is actually really old news.

      When I used to reside in Pima County, AZ, disaster response people were planning for just such a scenario starting in the early 1990's.

      Some time before the turn of the Century, I saw a draft proposal for what the Phoenix Fire Department and public health people in Maricopa County thought they might need to handle refugee influxes as a result of a further decline in the fortunes of Mexico. Talk about tent cities!

      [CONSPIRACY THEORY MODE ON]

      Look at the bright side: a giant influx of desperate, hungry people would be just the thing the political and industrial elites in the United States need to complete the destruction of the single, greatest threat to their power: the American Middle Class.

      [CONSPIRACY THEORY MODE OFF]

      On a more practical note, were I in charge of something, I would put the screws to the Powers That Be in Mexico in an effort to get the petroleum industry in those parts properly financed and staffed in an effort to get some jobs for people there rather than absorb them here. I doubt they would go for it, though, as the political and industrial elites in Mexico no doubt perceive the rise of a middle class as a great threat to their own power and perogatives.

      And, is there any doubt that the ruthless drug lords along the border who brazenly kill any honest cop or slaughter the wives and children of their rivals will, for the right price, smuggle terrorists and their weapons into the US?
      Yes, I would doubt that.

      If "the terrorists" really wanted to bring WMD or other material and/or personnel assets into CONUS, there is one place the Department of Homeland Security would never find it: inside of a truckload of cocaine ergo we must inquire of ouselves "why does it not happen"?

      I have no evidence to prove it, but my gut suspicion is, given how protective of their business the narco bandits are, they do not want the Islamic Jihad anywhere near it. A serious US crackdown on narcotics traffickers, the crooked agents who support it on both sides of the border and other parties involved would cripple the trade; very bad for business.

      I would bet five bucks that the traffickers have put more than one Jihadist or representative thereof in a shallow grave South of the Rio Grande.

      Besides, it is American habits that keep these drug lords in business. Why would they want to aid and abet the murder of their best customers?

      William
      Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?

      Comment


      • #4
        The drug trade and gangs coming out of Mexico has hurt the U.S. far more than the terrorist activities surrounding 9/11/01, and these problems should be dealt with accordingly. I say the hell with being politically correct and do whatever it takes to get a handle on the situation.
        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Swift Sword View Post
          Yes, I would doubt that.

          If "the terrorists" really wanted to bring WMD or other material and/or personnel assets into CONUS, there is one place the Department of Homeland Security would never find it: inside of a truckload of cocaine ergo we must inquire of ouselves "why does it not happen"?

          I have no evidence to prove it, but my gut suspicion is, given how protective of their business the narco bandits are, they do not want the Islamic Jihad anywhere near it. A serious US crackdown on narcotics traffickers, the crooked agents who support it on both sides of the border and other parties involved would cripple the trade; very bad for business.

          I would bet five bucks that the traffickers have put more than one Jihadist or representative thereof in a shallow grave South of the Rio Grande.

          Besides, it is American habits that keep these drug lords in business. Why would they want to aid and abet the murder of their best customers?

          William
          I agree that looking for a connection between Bin Laden and the cartel of Tijuana is utter crap. The real problem is that organized crime and corruption are spinning out of control in Northern Mexico and beyond and could very well threaten the stability of the country.

          In short 90's Colombia next to your door. :)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
            The drug trade and gangs coming out of Mexico has hurt the U.S. far more than the terrorist activities surrounding 9/11/01, and these problems should be dealt with accordingly. I say the hell with being politically correct and do whatever it takes to get a handle on the situation.
            till the market goes away there will be a trade. It will have violence associated with it. It was Columbia in the 80s. Mexico could just as easily say your ravenous demand for illegal drugs and your inability to control your people is creating a narco state in Northern Mexico to meet that demand. it's market capitalism.. Now. that's closer to the truth an politically incorrect. Till we stop the demand there will be a supply.

            No. locking addicts up doesn't work no one wants to pay the taxes that costs.Rockefeller laws were a failure. I think legalizing it, making public safety laws about use and taxing the holy crap out of it ends the drug gangs and the narco states. Prohibition still doesn't work. The crime the trade brings is worse than the product the same as the 20s.
            Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
            ~Ronald Reagan

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
              till the market goes away there will be a trade. It will have violence associated with it. It was Columbia in the 80s. Mexico could just as easily say your ravenous demand for illegal drugs and your inability to control your people is creating a narco state in Northern Mexico to meet that demand. it's market capitalism.. Now. that's closer to the truth an politically incorrect. Till we stop the demand there will be a supply.

              No. locking addicts up doesn't work no one wants to pay the taxes that costs.Rockefeller laws were a failure. I think legalizing it, making public safety laws about use and taxing the holy crap out of it ends the drug gangs and the narco states. Prohibition still doesn't work. The crime the trade brings is worse than the product the same as the 20s.
              While I dispute the idea of Mexico being the victim of market capitalism the prohibition in the US and the solution to the violence it engendered does happily prove your point as to what should be done now.
              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

              Leibniz

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                While I dispute the idea of Mexico being the victim of market capitalism the prohibition in the US and the solution to the violence it engendered does happily prove your point as to what should be done now.
                I was taking a position as a devil's advocate. I think it's a symbiotic relationship and if we pull the blamethrower out everyone gets burned.
                Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                ~Ronald Reagan

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                  I was taking a position as a devil's advocate. I think it's a symbiotic relationship and if we pull the blamethrower out everyone gets burned.
                  Watching Mystery Men?
                  "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nothing to worry about- when Obama saves the world, Mexico will be saved too.

                    Anyone seen my tax cut?
                    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by highsea View Post
                      Nothing to worry about- when Obama saves the world, Mexico will be saved too.

                      Anyone seen my tax cut?
                      Sir I believe you are the 5% who will pay for my tax cut. :))
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        Sir I believe you are the 5% who will pay for my tax cut. :))
                        F*** that! :P
                        "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Mexico....it could be the new A-stan!? Sans the air miles and language barrier!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well I dont think legalization will help much, it's not just marijuana but also cocaine, meth, etc and you DO NOT want those legalized. The last thing I want is for some coke head to be able to drive around while he/she is high. I personally think we should go the Singapore route and execute anyone caught with anything higher then x amount of a specific illegal drug (x would vary according to the drug, higher for the "safer" drugs like marijuana and lower for the more dangerous drugs ex meth). I would however allow legalization of marijuana for medical purposes with the permission of 3 doctors, 1 chosen by the patient, 1 by the insurance company and 1 by the government.

                            Even if they are legalized and we somehow avoided total collapse we still have to deal with the illegal immigrant smugglers aka the "coyotes".

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ChrisF202 View Post
                              Well I dont think legalization will help much, it's not just marijuana but also cocaine, meth, etc and you DO NOT want those legalized. The last thing I want is for some coke head to be able to drive around while he/she is high. I personally think we should go the Singapore route and execute anyone caught with anything higher then x amount of a specific illegal drug (x would vary according to the drug, higher for the "safer" drugs like marijuana and lower for the more dangerous drugs ex meth). I would however allow legalization of marijuana for medical purposes with the permission of 3 doctors, 1 chosen by the patient, 1 by the insurance company and 1 by the government.

                              Even if they are legalized and we somehow avoided total collapse we still have to deal with the illegal immigrant smugglers aka the "coyotes".
                              Well, how about legalizing the good stuff while restricting the use of heavy machinary and vehicles while under the influence? You know, like alcohol.

                              There will no doubt be people who will break the rules, but then again, how many people break the rules now and how much are we paying for jailing them and how much are the drug lords benefiting from the trade?
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                              Comment

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