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  • Talks with Iran without preconditions?

    What's your opinion? Do you think the US should hold high-level bilateral talks with Iran without preconditions? If yes, what level should these talks be at?

    Here's a post I made a few days ago in a discussion related to this. Pick it apart with positive or negative criticisms.
    Iran doesn't have any major armed opposition groups, though it does have two military arms who beyond the Supreme Leader are independent of one another, the Revolutionary Guards and the regular military. The Revolutionary Guards answers only to the Supreme Leader, and often pursues actions and policies that are contradictory to those of the elected portion of the Iranian government, the Maljis and the President.

    It is a rather dichotomous setup, but I don't think this division can be realistically exploited by external forces. Any perception of foreign involvement/direction by the Iranians will result in complete failure of any oppositional movement. Again, if the Iranian people believe there is foreign influence upon the actors attempting to exact a change in the political system, they will reject those actors. Thus a political change can only take place in an environment that is free from foreign involvement and must be entirely homegrown.

    The Iranian people are very conscious of the US-backed 1953 coup against Mossadeq and American (and even Israeli support) of the Shah and his repressive, brutal policies. It is a very emotional issue for them just as the 1979-81 hostage crisis is for Americans.

    Groups in Iran such as the pragmatists (e.g. Rasfanjani) and reformists (e.g. Khatami) completely denounce any efforts by outside parties to effect a change in Iranian policy. Just a few days ago there was a meeting between Khatami and former/current EU/UN leaders, and Khatami instantly and bitterly denounced suggestions that such a meeting constituted an endorsement for him to run again for President against Ahmadinejad in 2009.

    Most people in Iran do support democracy, and Iran already has a few democratic institutions, though combined with autocratic institutions that can overrule the parliament and President. The vast majority of Iranians would prefer that the Supreme Leader be elected. So there is no need to find oppositional groups to support democracy because the support is already there. Though the press in Iran is not entirely free, there is however a marked amount of freedom and a wide range of opinion, including dissident, that is tolerated.

    Personally, I believe that best policy with regards to Iran is to not to make statements or undertake actions that serve to strengthen the hands of the hardliners. Remember, Iran was for all practical purposes a US ally, fully supporting the US-led NATO intervention in Afghanistan. There were face-to-face meetings between high level US and Iranian officials that are now a subject of debate with regards to "preconditions" between McCain and Obama. The thawing of relations that began to trickle in the late Clinton Administration serendipitously turned to a flood in the first year of the Bush Administration, during the aftermath of 9/11. All evidence points to Iran under the reformist President Khatami seeking to re-establish diplomatic relations with the US with the blessing of the Supreme Leader, and perhaps a re-alignment even more favorable than that. In 2001, circumstances existed that could have effected a nearly 180 degree turnaround in US-Iranian relations, the possibility of which was then destroyed by the "Axis of Evil" statement in Bush's 2002 State of the Union Address. This missed opportunity is very regrettable, for at that point in time I believe the stars aligned and there existed a window for a "Nixon to China" moment. It also served to make the 2005 triumph of the hardliners under Ahmadinejad inevitable.

    Since then, there have been a number of complications that have re-driven the wedge between the US and Iran, such as the Iranian nuclear program as well as material and other support to Shi'ite militias in Iraq. It might be a number of years before the circumstances again exist for a US-Iranian reconciliation.
    72
    Yes
    62.50%
    45
    No
    37.50%
    27
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

  • #2
    US should let the UN deal with Iran and stop its global imperialism.

    Iran has a right to nuclear power.

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    • #3
      We talked with China before we had any friendly relations. So what's the big deal? As to the details of what level it should take, i will leave that to the real pro to figure something w/o us getting screwed. The real issue is that some people really believed we are number one and therefore we can be pure in all our stance. Welcome to the real world.:)

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      • #4
        Without Preconditions?

        Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
        What's your opinion? Do you think the US should hold high-level bilateral talks with Iran without preconditions? If yes, what level should these talks be at?
        Hell NOOOO! Whoever thought of doing something like that needs to pull their head out and get a brain transplant.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by otester View Post
          US should let the UN deal with Iran and stop its global imperialism.

          Iran has a right to nuclear power.
          No and no!

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          • #6
            Talking does no harm

            I feel that we need to talk with Iran.
            Peaceful negotiation away from rhetoric would surely help defuse the situation.
            I also feel strongly that a belligerent regime like that in Iran at the present certainly does not have the "right" to nuclear weapons.
            They frequently threaten too many people.

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            • #7
              The UN is obsolete and emasculated.
              The lunatics are running the asylum.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Richard marksbe View Post
                Hell NOOOO! Whoever thought of doing something like that needs to pull their head out and get a brain transplant.
                Heh, it would be helpful if you detailed your reasons and rationale behind your opinion. Would help quite a bit more to move along the debate. ;)
                "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jwcprn View Post
                  I feel that we need to talk with Iran.
                  Peaceful negotiation away from rhetoric would surely help defuse the situation.
                  I also feel strongly that a belligerent regime like that in Iran at the present certainly does not have the "right" to nuclear weapons.
                  They frequently threaten too many people.
                  Going by that logic the rest of the world should treat the US like that as well.

                  I notice most of posts have no reason behind them, trolls?

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                  • #10
                    Yes we should.
                    Here is why i think so....

                    The biggest problem so far has been the dilemma of who do we try to mend our relationships with. The countries in the Middle East that we have great government level relationships with, their public's opinion is extremely hostile towards the US.

                    A very good example is Saudi Arabia. Great relationship with the heads of State, but public hates us. Egypt is another good example. Keeping in mind these are the two countries where all the hijackers of 9/11 came from.

                    We need to mend our relationships with nations who's public is more understanding and wanting change, and not force the change from the top down but let it work its way up. As relationships improve, it gives everyone time to let the people decide and eventually take matters into their own hands. Have the right kind of organic revolution.

                    A US Iranian relationship will be successful in the region if we treat their government with some degree of engagement. They need to feel that we actually understand their needs and their opinion in the region. Ignore Ahmadiinjad or whatever his name is. His comments do not reflect the views of the majority of people. Who cares about the plight of a people many miles away. They are more concerned about their own economy and geopolitical future.

                    Specially as China increases its clout over the region in a Vacuum of US efforts, we cannot afford to let resource rich countries deal favorably towards China tilting the balance.

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                    • #11
                      Also need to remember that the West needs a 'threat' to maintain its authoritarian regimes, just like all authoritarian regimes.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by otester View Post
                        Also need to remember that the West needs a 'threat' to maintain its authoritarian regimes, just like all authoritarian regimes.
                        Which authoritarian regimes are you referring to?
                        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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                        • #13
                          Apologizing in advance, half asleep and my grammer and sentence structure is lacking.....

                          Absolutely.

                          I think all we do now is alienate ourselves and give them reasons to justify to the common person what big uncaring selfish jerks we are. :)

                          but seriously, I think we would have been much farther along in the hearts of the common person and they would be farther along in their outspokeness against the government.

                          Back around 1999 they were talking about letting a U.S. Naval ship make a port visit, relations were improving. Some U.S. wrestlers had just competed there.
                          There was alot of westernization talk going on from the people. But now with all the Evil Empire and name calling going on, we have just pushed ourselves away.
                          I think the Iranians would have progressed things alot farther if they had been left to their own accord or at least if they had not seen us as a bully trying to shove something down their throat.

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                          • #14
                            I think we should. There is really nothing to lose. I think Iran can be salvaged, I visited there in the 70s and the Iranian people were fairly pro American in general.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by otester View Post
                              Going by that logic the rest of the world should treat the US like that as well.

                              I notice most of posts have no reason behind them, trolls?
                              Has the President of the US threatened to wipe anyone off the face of the Earth?
                              Has any US President ever done that?

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