Name Your Favorite SP Tank Destroyer.

[Triple C]

Everything SP with an anti-tank mission is fair game, except 'true tanks' and a white elephant that we all know. Mine are: M18, M36, Su-122, Jadg Pz IV L/70. They are reliable and effective designs, well-armed and easily manufactured. Jackson's 90mm had a lot of power, electric power turret traverse, and gyrostabalizer. SU-122 had an excellent dual purpose gun and good armor. Jadg Pz IV was based on a proven design that could be manufactured in ample numbers and armed with the superb 75mm L/70. M18 because I have a soft spot for that cat, for its mobility, fast turret traverse and also gyrostabalizer equipped. 76mm and thin armor were big drawbacks however.

[bolo121]

Sturmgeschütz III - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mainly because Ive always liked it and also was my fave unit in Close Combat III:))

[bugs]

hetzer
Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer

[Stitch]

The Jagdpanther, closely followed by the Jagdtiger; the Jagdtiger was incredibly impractical, but there's nothing like having the largest, most powerful AT gun of WWII on your vehicle.

Here is the Jagdtiger at the US Army Aberdeen Tank Museum, with a Jagdpanther in the background:

[Triple C]

I finished Zaloga's book on M18 Hellcat. He did not share my enthusiasm for the Hellcat TD. He believes that too many design compromises had been made to give the AFV a high maximum speed that was not needed at the front line.

Zaloga finds the M18 a poorly concieved and imbalanced design. The crew compartment was cramped and fightability poor. It could not carry enough 76mm shells onboard, and due to want of coaxial machinegun and open top turret it was vulnerable to infantry attacks. The 50 cal. as in other US tanks was poorly placed and using it would oblige the commander to crawl out of the turret and expose himself to small arms fire.

Ultimately, Zaloga believes that the M18 succeeded on the battlefield in spite of rather than because of its technical performance and attributed the high kill ratio of M18 TD Battalions to the skill and motivation of US TD crews in general. He considers the M18 a failed design because it did not offer any improvement in firepower compared to the M10, and obtained superior speed at the price of greatly reduced armor protection.

However, some crew did favor their M18s. One TD Bn commander note that while his troops were less willing to seek contact with panzers in the thin skinned M18, he did find its ability to get into firing positions quickly an asset. Instead of being used to seek, strike and destroy, M4A1/A3 (76mm) tank were used as the primary tank-killer while the M18s were often deployed as either the 'fire brigade' to protect the infantry collumn or accompanied the mechanized cavalry for extra anti-tank firepower in case serious opposition was met.

Thoght provoking. I have thought that the M18 was a relatively successful design.

[BD1]

Hetzer and Wiesel TOW.

[sappersgt]

My choice is the JgdPz V as best followed by the JgdPz 38 as the best example of "can do". In more modern times Iwas intrigued by the Marder mounted 90mm gun (Jpz Canone?) fielded by the Bundeswehr. I always thought it would be handy to have 90 mm SP gun around for direct fire support. Call me old fashioned I guess.

[Bigfella]

Best? SU100. Can do everything the Jagdpanther can do except shoot at infantry.

Advantages: Cheaper & easier to make; infinitely more reliable & easier to maintain; 14 tons lighter; almost 2 feet lower - a huge plus.

Saw the debut of the 100mm gun that would become the standard tank gun of the Communist world for almost 2 generations.

Saw service into the 1970s, and some may still be in service in Vietnam.

A remarkable vehicle.

[RustyBattleship]

Well, the M-18 wasn't designed to be a main battle tank. The Army philosophy at that time was that main battle tanks (Grants, Shermans, Cromwells, etc) be the main infantry support. If enemy armor were to come within sight, tank destroyers (such as the M-18) would be called in to use their high velocity 76mm gun from an ambush position. They were designed light to be fast, manueverable, could cross light bridges, etc.

On a satellite channel they often carry a series of Tank Repair which is basically restoration of different tanks at different tank museums. There was one episode where the tank museum near Salt Lake City where they were restoring an M-18. They were able to make out its serial number and one of their researchers actually found a WW II photograph of that M-18 with its crew posing in front of it. After a little more research they found that the tank commander of that M-18 was still living and in Salt Lake City.

So they completely restored that tank, including putting in a new radial aircraft engine in it, and hid it in a restoration shed. Then they threw a party for all the local American Legion vets and made sure that TC was there. He didn't know the party was especially for him.

They walked him over to the shed, rolled open the door and there was HIS old M-18. He nearly cried.

Then they asked if he would like to take it out for a spin. They had several people there to help get him up into the turret and his TC position as he was elderly, a bit overweight and walked with a cane.

He handed his cane to one of the guys and said, "Now THIS is how you get into an M-18" and climbed up into it all by himself. They ran it around the lot a few times and he was grinning from ear to ear and yelling, "Faster. Faster."

What a great tribute they did for him.

[ozjohn39]

Hawker 'Tempest'

;-)



John

[Speedy]

Hetzer.

[ArmchairGeneral]

Hawker 'Tempest'

;-)



John

:))

[Triple C]

Alright, baring things that fly!

Damned nitpickers... oz, you should have considered corporate law!

Was ISU-122 better armored than SU-100? The difference of the two cannon's antitank power was small, I recall.

[s_qwert63]

SU-150 Zveroboy :D overkill.

but more practically the Hetzer. Only the Germans could sustain the obsolete t-38 Czech chassis for so long and so effectively.

Mainly because Ive always liked it and also was my fave unit in Close Combat III

I LOVE THAT GAME! pity it runs so badly on XP. heard of any new good mods?

[dalem]

M18. As far as the .50cal mount it was an AA mount, not intended for ground work. Even with that at least it had a ring mount on the side instead of the pedestal mount in the rear of the M10. And the armor/speed trade made sense in the context of what U.S. TD design philosophy and doctrine was intending.

And they did trials of dropping in an M36 turret into the M18 chassis and as long as it wasn't firing directly 90 degrees to the side, apparently it worked fine. That would have been a nice toy. :)

-dale