Mexican St. Patrick's Day? Strange story.

[nickfury]

A weird bit of American history I was not familiar with.

It is often said that “everyone is Irish on St. Patrick’s Day” but to Mexicans this celebration has special meaning of historical importance. The St. Patrick’s Brigade also known as “Los San Patricios” were Irishmen who fought and gave their lives for Mexico in the Mexican American War.

Mexicans honor the San Patricios or St. Patricks Brigade with celebrations on September 12, the anniversary of their lynching by the US Army and March 17th.

http://ptlia.com/Forms/Main/Default....&P=Editorials6

[ChrisF202]

This little story all depends on perspective; to me I see the San Patrico Battalion as traitors (which they were). They werent hanged at the exact moment the US flag went up the flagpole at Cherbusco for no reason. And im an Catholic of Irish descent and saying that; I put my country before my ethnic and religious background.

[crooks]

A weird bit of American history I was not familiar with.

It is often said that “everyone is Irish on St. Patrick’s Day” but to Mexicans this celebration has special meaning of historical importance. The St. Patrick’s Brigade also known as “Los San Patricios” were Irishmen who fought and gave their lives for Mexico in the Mexican American War.

Mexicans honor the San Patricios or St. Patricks Brigade with celebrations on September 12, the anniversary of their lynching by the US Army and March 17th.

Proud to Live in America

They are celebrated here by Mexican immigrants and many Irish people who know of them as well - the San Patricios were brave men, and good soldiers, who rode to the aid of what they saw as fellow Catholics in genuine trouble.

The reasons they did so are up for debate though, some people say they deserted for better land grants and pay, we have plenty of military types here, was the reason ever fully discovered?

[nickfury]

Santa Anna regularly sent messages to the Irish footsoldiers in the US army and did make promises of land,etc.
The most generally accepted reason for their switching over to the side of Mexico as their poor treatment by Protestant officers in the US Army, lack of the ability to observe their religion and similarities between England/Ireland and US/Mexico.

[nickfury]

This little story all depends on perspective; to me I see the San Patrico Battalion as traitors (which they were). They werent hanged at the exact moment the US flag went up the flagpole at Cherbusco for no reason. And im an Catholic of Irish descent and saying that; I put my country before my ethnic and religious background.

Chris,

I was not drawing any conclusion to the San Patricios actions I was just sharing a bit of history that most are not familiar with. I myself was not aware that the "great hunger" in Ireland was the result of British landowner greed as opposed to plain old blight as stated in the article.

Wasn't trying to make a political statement.

[glyn]

[QUOTE=nickfury;470896] I myself was not aware that the "great hunger" in Ireland was the result of British landowner greed as opposed to plain old blight as stated in the article.

I don't know the whole story, but I rather think it's more complicated than that. Stories that are passed down from generation to generation tend to get addled over time.

[nickfury]

[QUOTE=glyn;470911]

I myself was not aware that the "great hunger" in Ireland was the result of British landowner greed as opposed to plain old blight as stated in the article.

I don't know the whole story, but I rather think it's more complicated than that. Stories that are passed down from generation to generation tend to get addled over time.

This is actually a variable that historians have just recently began to take in consideration as a large contributing factor. Not taking sides just taking a look at revisionist history. Interesting story though didn't you think? I can honestly say i had never heard of the San Patricios.

[glyn]

[QUOTE=nickfury;470922]

This is actually a variable that historians have just recently began to take in consideration as a large contributing factor. Not taking sides just taking a look at revisionist history. Interesting story though didn't you think? I can honestly say i had never heard of the San Patricios.

It is an interesting story, and one I had not encountered before either.

[crooks]

Chris,

I was not drawing any conclusion to the San Patricios actions I was just sharing a bit of history that most are not familiar with. I myself was not aware that the "great hunger" in Ireland was the result of British landowner greed as opposed to plain old blight as stated in the article.

It was a mix of factors - the British landowners weren't responsible for the famine, that was blight and the Irish nation's overwhelmingly dangerous reliance on a single crop.

However the latter reason could be put down to imposed, deliberate poverty on Irish Catholics and 'non conformist' Protestants such as Presbyterians (these two groups formed the vast majority of the country's inhabitants) by British landowners, and once the famine began the British did nothing to help what they generally viewed as 'proles' - in short, bad luck was responsible, but British attitudes (with courageous exceptions) towards the 'Irish servant classes' was appaling, and a truly shameful period in the two country's relations (the equivalent for us of what the Brits must have thought about Ireland and Nationalists during the IRA's campaign in the North, only with over a million deaths!).

I'd argue Irish Republicanism was born during the 1798 rebellion (Catholics and Protestants were united to fight the British by Wolfe Tone and indeed Belfast was one of the most important centres of Revolution), but was vindicated during the Great Famine - the nation's population fell from 8 million to 4 million in 1920, and has only started recovering since the 1960s....1850 was the first time that everyone bar the Anglican ascendency (who were mostly English anyway) could agree on a simple fact:

British rule in Ireland is bad for the Irish.

[Tarek Morgen]

Famines are usually not caused by a lack of food, but by the unabilty of the people to afford it. So even in worst droughts a country usually produces enoguh food to feed everyone, but the farmers and the people who work for them are unable to earn any money and afford it. And th largly decreased amount of available food also causes the remaining one to become much more expensive, worsening the problem.

Thats one of the reason why shipping food from europe or america to Africa seldom does good in the long run, because this way we destroy what is left of the local agriculture and now they have no means left to feed themselve. Uhm..I got kinda off topic, sorry.

[GAU-8]

Mexicans honor the San Patricios or St. Patricks Brigade with celebrations on September 12, the anniversary of their lynching by the US Army and March 17th.

With due respect to all,

They deserted their units in the middle of a shooting war. Back then, that was enough to get shot or hanged.

To desert and then fight for the enemy is far worse than being a deserter in any age.

IMHO, we're making just a wee bit more of this than there is.

[GAU-8]

Mexicans honor the San Patricios or St. Patricks Brigade with celebrations on September 12, the anniversary of their lynching by the US Army and March 17th.

lynching:
noun
--putting a person to death by mob action without due process of law

1. The U.S. Army was/is a "mob?" Some folks won't argue with you about that.

2. A U.S. Army courts martial does not constitute due process of law?

3. Deserters in time of war who subsequently take up arms against their former U.S. Army compatriots deserve to be treated in what manner?

Notice the web site you pulled this editorial from is called "Proud to live in America" not "Proud to be an American" or "I want to be an American." It's a pro illegal alien web site with slanted anti-American views. While we're at it, let's link some sites to LaRaza, RECONQUISTA, Aztlan and MEChA. This is revisionist propaganda at best. I wouldn't honor it with the term "history"--weird or not.

I see from the two other posts you started, you to link this same site.

What are you trying to sell here Nick?

[nickfury]

lynching:
noun
--putting a person to death by mob action without due process of law

1. The U.S. Army was/is a "mob?" Some folks won't argue with you about that.

2. A U.S. Army courts martial does not constitute due process of law?

3. Deserters in time of war who subsequently take up arms against their former U.S. Army compatriots deserve to be treated in what manner?

Notice the web site you pulled this editorial from is called "Proud to live in America" not "Proud to be an American" or "I want to be an American." It's a pro illegal alien web site with slanted anti-American views. While we're at it, let's link some sites to LaRaza, RECONQUISTA, Aztlan and MEChA. This is revisionist propaganda at best. I wouldn't honor it with the term "history"--weird or not.

I see from the two other posts you started, you to link this same site.

What are you trying to sell here Nick?

We were talking about a little known piece of interesting American history on St Patricks Day.

I read several sites regularly and if I find something interesting I share it with others who I think may be interested. Several other read the piece and did not come to your conclusions.

[Parihaka]

It was a mix of factors - the British landowners weren't responsible for the famine, that was blight and the Irish nation's overwhelmingly dangerous reliance on a single crop.

However the latter reason could be put down to imposed, deliberate poverty on Irish Catholics and 'non conformist' Protestants such as Presbyterians (these two groups formed the vast majority of the country's inhabitants) by British landowners, and once the famine began the British did nothing to help what they generally viewed as 'proles' - in short, bad luck was responsible, but British attitudes (with courageous exceptions) towards the 'Irish servant classes' was appaling, and a truly shameful period in the two country's relations (the equivalent for us of what the Brits must have thought about Ireland and Nationalists during the IRA's campaign in the North, only with over a million deaths!).

I'd argue Irish Republicanism was born during the 1798 rebellion (Catholics and Protestants were united to fight the British by Wolfe Tone and indeed Belfast was one of the most important centres of Revolution), but was vindicated during the Great Famine - the nation's population fell from 8 million to 4 million in 1920, and has only started recovering since the 1960s....1850 was the first time that everyone bar the Anglican ascendency (who were mostly English anyway) could agree on a simple fact:

British rule in Ireland is bad for the Irish.

Without entering into debate of the rights and wrongs of the colonisation of Ireland, simple existing book-keeping demonstrates that food continued to be exported from Ireland throughout the period of the 1840's famine.
Historically the most productive lands had been turned over to English-descended estate owners for grazing and grains, grown to supply the lucrative English market.

As a consequence of this disenfranchisement the majority of the Irish lived a subsistence life on lands unsuitable for growing any but the most basic foods, hence the reliance on the potato and inability to earn enough money to buy Irish-grown food at English market prices.
Thus, when the crop was blighted, the primary remaining staple of the Irish diet was removed and the continued abundance of other crops were exported to England, often under armed guard.

The Great Hunger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[nickfury]

Without entering into debate of the rights and wrongs of the colonisation of Ireland, simple existing book-keeping demonstrates that food continued to be exported from Ireland throughout the period of the 1840's famine.
Historically the most productive lands had been turned over to English-descended estate owners for grazing and grains, grown to supply the lucrative English market.

As a consequence of this disenfranchisement the majority of the Irish lived a subsistence life on lands unsuitable for growing any but the most basic foods, hence the reliance on the potato and inability to earn enough money to buy Irish-grown food at English market prices.
Thus, when the crop was blighted, the primary remaining staple of the Irish diet was removed and the continued abundance of other crops were exported to England, often under armed guard.

The Great Hunger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bravo and thank you.