Muzzle blast damage

[Rick DeBay]

I was reading at the All the World's Battlecruisers site that "Blast damage was the norm when battleships fired their guns. It was just a matter of the degree of damage."
Most of the discussion was about British and German ships, damaging bulkheads, framing, and piping. Does anyone have any information about damage to US ships? With the war in the Pacific, the US fired their big guns a lot more often.

[Dreadnought]

I was reading at the All the World's Battlecruisers site that "Blast damage was the norm when battleships fired their guns. It was just a matter of the degree of damage."
Most of the discussion was about British and German ships, damaging bulkheads, framing, and piping. Does anyone have any information about damage to US ships? With the war in the Pacific, the US fired their big guns a lot more often.

Rick,
On the stern of the New Jersey you will find remnants of the last gunnery tests from turret 3 rifle #1 bearing at 30^ off centerline. It caved in the side of the helo shack which is either 3/8" thick or 1/2" thick I would have to check on the thinkness. It also buckled the i beam supports for the wall of the shack. All this from just a muzzle blast and one that was a good distance from the shack to boot. Thank god the windows roll down on the bridge otherwise after the first rifle lets loose there wouldn't be any left to look through.;)

Battleship Pennsylvania (BB38) was nicknamed "old falling apart" she earned this nickname since she could fire very quickly and literally shaked
alot of her surroundings to pieces. I can remember there being images out there of them hoseing down the guns with water because they were so hot from firing and so they would not "droop" from the extreme heat and heard myths of men having to "torch" off the end of the liners from the barrel because they expanded so much under extreme heat.

[omon]

Rick,
On the stern of the New Jersey you will find remnants of the last gunnery tests from turret 3 rifle #1 bearing at 30^ off centerline. It caved in the side of the helo shack which is either 3/8" thick or 1/2" thick I would have to check on the thinkness. It also buckled the i beam supports for the wall of the shack. All this from just a muzzle blast and one that was a good distance from the shack to boot. Thank god the windows roll down on the bridge otherwise after the first rifle lets loose there wouldn't be any left to look through.;)

Battleship Pennsylvania (BB38) was nicknamed "old falling apart" she earned this nickname since she could fire very quickly and literally shaked
alot of her surroundings to pieces. I can remember there being images out there of them hosing down the guns with water because they were so hot from firing and so they would not "droop" from the extreme heat and heard myths of men haveing to "torch" off the end if the liners from the barrel because they expanded so much under extreme heat.

wow, that is new for me, thanks for the info.

[Ytlas]

Rick,
........It also buckled the i beam supports for the wall of the shack. All this from just a muzzle blast and one that was a good distance from the shack to boot.

Wall? Jersey ain't got walls.........

Happy Holidays

[Dreadnought]

Wall? Jersey ain't got walls.........

Happy Holidays

Bulkhead sheesh. Merry Christmas Pal.;)

[Rick DeBay]

So nothing as disabling as the HMS Rodney losing her fire systems due to ruptured pipes. Thanks, although I'm waiting for Rusty to chime in on some obscure reactivation test of an Iowa. :)

[Dreadnought]

So nothing as disabling as the HMS Rodney losing her fire systems due to ruptured pipes. Thanks, although I'm waiting for Rusty to chime in on some obscure reactivation test of an Iowa. :)

Ah, I see you have read the Bismarck book about Rodneys condition after the engagement? And hows about that damage to KGV;)
When big guns like that jump their trunions you know there is steel flying.:))

I'll take a quick photo to post of the damage but bare with me I'm still learning how to cut down the pic to fit the WAB criteria for posting.

[Ytlas]

I'm waiting for Rusty to chime in on some obscure reactivation test of an Iowa.

Yeah, maybe uncle cRusty will tell us the story of the HY 80 and the funnel.....

[RustyBattleship]

Helo ops shack (former movie booth) on New Jersey:
It was in just fine shape when we finished up the ship in late 1982.

THEN came the gunnery muzzle blast tests. I know the person who recommended that shot but will not mention his name as he is a friend of mine (No, it's not who you think it is and doesn't even live in this end of the country). He wanted to see if that's what caused the same cave-in of the movie booth on Missouri.

He was right. Well, it's not completely his fault. Dr. (Name classified) of Dahlgren could have said "No" to the shot. But the good Doc had already blown off the service platforms on the starboard Refueling-at-Sea Kingpost and the rubber bucklers of Turret I with an over the bow shot of Turret II, so what the hell.

We already had to replace the Missouri's shack completely. Instead of 1/4" thick medium steel we built it out of 1/2" thick HTS (High Tensile Strength) steel.

Peggy Wong was the engineer that did the calculations for me so we could select a material that could withstand that kind of shot again.

When New Jersey came back from her last gunnery overpressure (muzzle blast) trial with the caved in shack, I was already assigning a draftsman to make a mylar copy of the Missouri drawing and put a New Jersey issue block on it.

But by that time Type Desk was finding less loose change in its pockets and never funded the replacement.

[Dreadnought]

I took pics of the shack this weekend. Now all I have to do is reduce them to fit the WAB criteria.:)

[Dreadnought]

On another note, I also read an article where the Captain himself onboard either New Jersey or Iowa was blown out of his chair and to the deck by the muzzle blast of one of the 5"/38' mounts that was close by. He recieved an eye injury from it. So you can just imagine how much pressure is released when just one of the 16/50's go off.I'll find and put a link to the incident.

[RustyBattleship]

On another note, I also read an article where the Captain himself onboard either New Jersey or Iowa was blown out of his chair and to the deck by the muzzle blast of one of the 5"/38' mounts that was close by. He recieved an eye injury from it. So you can just imagine how much pressure is released when just one of the 16/50's go off.I'll find and put a link to the incident.

I don't think it was the Captain. It was probably me. NJ was firing at towed air targets. The 5-inch gun crews on the port side were very, very slow. Of all three mounts they only got off 2 shots, one from mount 54 and one from mount 56, when the target sleeve was clear and incoming.

I was up on 05 level with the gunnery officer (aka "Jaws") and a rep from General Dynamics. I walked over to the port side to see what the hell was wrong and was watching Mount 52 still tracking the target sleeve (going from port to starboard just beyond our bow). It got to the point where I could actually see the rifling of the inboard muzzle.

The one that fired, zipping a VT non-frag right past my nose. Fortunately I was still wearing my ear protectors (as well as having my hearing aids underneath turned off).

The General Dynamics rep had just taken off his ear muffs thinking the target was too far for a gun to fire and wound up on his knees from the enormous CRACK that a 5-incher gives (as opposed to a BOOM from a 16-incher).

On the next pass from Starboard, the starboard guns did much, much better as mount 55 was manned by the Marines so mounts 51 and 53 were going to compete with them. 12 rounds in about 12 seconds the target sleeve was shreds.

But since the shot from mount 52 earlier, my sinuses have never been the same since.

[Dreadnought]

My mistake. It was Rear Admiral Hustvedt.

A blurb from the book (Muir; The Iowa class battleships Pg. 38 &39)

Surpisingly, the 5"/38 was harder on the crew then the main battery. As one sailors described the experience of the concussion from the 16-inch guns: ' is tremendous, but it builds up. "It's like being hit by a slow truck wrapped in a sofa cushions". "The 5-inchers dam them, hit you like a plank". And they could hurt. Twelve men aboard the New Jersey off Okinawa suffered badly enough from the 5-inchers blast to need medical attention. During that same operation, seven Wisconsin sailors were put under medical supervision for several days for chest and nasal problems due to the 5-inchers; two more men suffered first and second degree flash burns from the stubby weapons. The preceding year, Rear Admiral Hustvedt, seated on the starboard side of the Iowa's bridge, was literally blown out of his chair and to the deck by the unexpected discharge of the nearest 5-incher whose muzzle was perhaps 25 feet away. The Admiral suffered permanent damage to his right eye.

In fact the enormous blast pressure from the big guns always demanded respect. Generating overpressures of more then 50 PSI. close to the muzzle (and 7 PSI up to 50 feet away.

Perhaps your a reincarnate Mr. L.:))

[RustyBattleship]

Surpisingly, the 5"/38 was harder on the crew then the main battery. As one sailors described the experience of the concussion from the 16-inch guns: ' is tremendous, but it builds up. "It's like being hit by a slow truck wrapped in a sofa cushions". "The 5-inchers dam them, hit you like a plank".
In fact the enormous blast pressure from the big guns always demanded respect. Generating overpressures of more then 50 PSI. close to the muzzle (and 7 PSI up to 50 feet away.

Perhaps your a reincarnate Mr. L.:))

You are SO right about the sharp whacking you get from a 5"/38. With that short of a barrel you have to use pretty fast burning powder to have it all burned just before the projectile clears the muzzle. Besides the incident I related above, on another inspection I had to stand just behind Mount 54 while it was firing because the overpressure (EVEN BEHIND THE GUN) was loosening up locker latches on the deck and I had to keep hammering them shut so the doors wouldn't open and get blown off.

With turned off hearing aids acting as ear plugs plus ear m*ff type protectors I didn't suffer any ill effects. Except for wondering what kinds of latches we needed to put on those locker doors.

[Ctom3]

Muzzle Blast Damage

Immediately after receiving the shell hit at Cherbourg that destroyed the bridge, BB35 turned directly away from shore to assess damages. They continued to fire from turrets 4 and 5 directly over the stern. In that position, the muzzles are directly over the deck and since their maximum elevation is only 15 deg., those of #5 are very close to the teak. The blast blew open above deck lockers and set their contents on fire. The crew's showers and heads are located on second deck at the stern and the shock blew all of the ceramic tiles off the deck. As a result, they are now the only heads and showers on the ship that have an exposed steel deck.

There is a postcard written by a crew member of Texas in the late teens that described scores of light bulbs breaking every time the guns were fired. The ship now has spring mounted light fixtures in turrets and handling rooms. On a humorous note, the original builder's plans show the location for champagne and claret glasses storage racks in the ward room pantry on the second deck. They are mounted on the #1 and #2 barbettes. Assuming that they were actually installed and glasses stored there, I wonder how many of them survived the first firing of the guns?

It is my understanding that it is not unusual for liners to extend beyond the muzzle after a number of firings. However, it is extremely unlikely that it is caused from overheating, rather it is more likely an extrusion process caused by pressure and a plug weighing a ton or more moving up the bore. One thing of which I am pretty certain is that it would not be cut off using cutting torches. The heat of the torch would most certainly distort and damage the remaining bore and rifling. The inventory lists in BB35's main battery includes cutting equipment specifically designated for removing liner extending beyond the muzzle.