Pakistan bombs rebel bases

[Ironduke]

Pakistan jets pound 'rebel bases'

Pakistani warplanes bombarded suspected pro-Taleban militant positions on Tuesday, as fierce fighting raged near the Afghan border for a fourth day.

The army says 45 troops and 150 rebels have died in battles around the town of Mir Ali. Tuesday's air strikes left 50 rebels dead, unconfirmed reports say.

Locals are fleeing the area in large numbers. They say many civilians died.

It is the heaviest fighting for many months in North Waziristan, which the US says is an al-Qaeda safe haven.

Pakistan's President Musharraf - a vital ally in the US-led "war on terror" - is under pressure to do more to stop militants crossing into Afghanistan, where violence this year has soared.

The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says that Mir Ali is known as a base for foreign militants with links to the Taleban and al-Qaeda.

The violence has been escalating since mid-July when a ceasefire between the army and the militants broke down.

Access for journalists to the tribal areas is restricted and it is impossible to independently verify the casualty figures.

Source: BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan jets pound 'rebel bases'

[Ray]

See comments on PDF to realise the situation.

[S2]

Ray Reply

Brigadier,

"See comments on PDF to realise the situation."

I did. Was that interesting! First, most of the posts on two related threads seem to originate from the U.K., Canada, and the states (New Zealand too). Saw one each from Quetta, Islamabad, and "Pakistan". Host nation is poorly under-represented. Why? Just these threads or is PDF mainly populated by expatriates living in the west?

Venomous antipathy for the Taliban. I was surprised. Not much regard among the posters for tribespeople of FATA and N./ S. Waziristan either. Denigrating and abusive. Gave me the impression that they were viewed by PDF posters as lesser people largely undeserving of the protection of the state. Lots of calls for overwhelming military force, bombing, artillery, etc. Surprisingly little concern for civilian casualties mixed with blame as facilitators/enablers of al Qaeda/Taliban.

Very interesting stuff but I'm unsure how skewed these possibly "westernized" perspectives of PDF might be.

[wkllaw]

Brigadier,

"See comments on PDF to realise the situation."

I did. Was that interesting! First, most of the posts on two related threads seem to originate from the U.K., Canada, and the states (New Zealand too). Saw one each from Quetta, Islamabad, and "Pakistan". Host nation is poorly under-represented. Why? Just these threads or is PDF mainly populated by expatriates living in the west?

Venomous antipathy for the Taliban. I was surprised. Not much regard among the posters for tribespeople of FATA and N./ S. Waziristan either. Denigrating and abusive. Gave me the impression that they were viewed by PDF posters as lesser people largely undeserving of the protection of the state. Lots of calls for overwhelming military force, bombing, artillery, etc. Surprisingly little concern for civilian casualties mixed with blame as facilitators/enablers of al Qaeda/Taliban.

Very interesting stuff but I'm unsure how skewed these possibly "westernized" perspectives of PDF might be.

Well, these things are in english so of course the english-speaking west will express their opinions in this english article.

Anyway, its interesting to note how I once saw a news channel in NYC allow public discussion in there web for a hour, there were calls for nuking the middle east everywhere.

These people seem like the type who yell out their opinion and don't like to debate with facts.

[Parihaka]

Brigadier,

[B] First, most of the posts on two related threads seem to originate from the U.K., Canada, and the states (New Zealand too).

Australia actually;) They've got 5 white stars as opposed to our four red and white ones:)

[S2]

Parihaka Reply

No shirking your burden. He's one of yours.

demonslayer

View Member Profile Oct 7 2007, 05:22 AM Post #8


MAJOR


Group: Full Members
Posts: 638
Joined: 12-October 06
Member No.: 11,147
Location: NewZealand

[MarquezRazor]

Are you guys referring to This thread?

[S2]

Marquez Razor Reply

N. Waziristan Militants Capture 28 Soldiers

That's the one I'm talking about. Don't know which thread Parihaka was referring.

[Cactus]

Very interesting stuff but I'm unsure how skewed these possibly "westernized" perspectives of PDF might be.

No idea how much "westernization" is influencing their antipathy towards Tali-tubbies, but Pakistanis - in country, or out - have a very complex love-hate relationship with the Pathans they term their countrymen. Almost every issue of Pathans and rest of Pakistanis is plagued by this phenomenon.

Pakistanis take great pride in Pathans' macho culture - as you would expect in a country that has tolerated military rule for more than 40 years since 1947. But they also fear the domestic manifestations of that culture. It can be as benign as aggressive Pathan truck-drivers or as blatant as blood-feuds. In fact I think ganja-addled truck drivers kill more non-Pathan Pakistanis than are killed in blood-feud cross-fire... but blood-feuds make more visible news an scare the bejeezus out of average Pakistanis.

Pakistani government also made another of these love-hate decisions when it decided to encourage drug production and trafficking, but forgot to decriminalize it. A mind-numbing number of Pakistanis are involved in that very-profitable business, including a former President's son and many Corps commanders and intel chiefs, but Pathans handle the dirty-end of the business. So for average Pakistanis Pathans are the villains whose reputation humiliates Pakistanis at all international airports, who supply their children with slow-acting poison. For Paks, Pathan in the drug trade are legal criminals illegally left to run free.

Also there are many industry, area and sect-specific love-hate relations. Business owners love cheap refugee labor, but workers hate the competetion from them. Pathans are made welcome in Balochistan and Kashmir to skew the demographics in favour of Islamabad (to whom the settlers are beholden to), but not welcome in cities where they can permeate into the established criminal organizations. Fundamentalist Sunni Pakistanis love their militant brand of Sunni Islam and encourage them to suppress Shias in Karachi and Gilgit areas, but secularists and moderates hate the communal tensions they whip up.

There are all quite domestic and real issues, not just of interest to westernized Pakistani expats. In fact many of those westernized expats, as well as sheltered Pakistani elite, are often quite cavalier in their dimissal of in-country Pakistanis' concerns about these pressing issues. But there is very real resentment.

[Archer]

Simple:

1. Pathans impose sharia in Afghanistan, kill Hindus in Kashmir? Allah o Akbar, they are true soldiers of Islam. Pakhtoons are the bedrock of Pak Army, insha'Allah they will kill the polytheists, Pathans are....blah blah...

2. Pathans do the same to the Pak Army?
They are bast*rds, mediavalists spoiling the name of Islam..they should be hunted down, bombed to bits, how dare they attack the Army....etc.

All these days, at PDF it was 1.

Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, 'tis 2.

Big surprise.

[MarquezRazor]

N. Waziristan Militants Capture 28 Soldiers

That's the one I'm talking about. Don't know which thread Parihaka was referring.

Okay.

All these expat Pakistanis are supporting the army and Musharraf mainly.While those in Pakistan are supporting the tribals.

[Tronic]

Okay.

All these expat Pakistanis are supporting the army and Musharraf mainly.While those in Pakistan are supporting the tribals.

Musharaf has quite a huge support base in Pakistan also, one of the reasons he has managed to cling on to power for this long.

[Parihaka]

No shirking your burden. He's one of yours.

demonslayer

View Member Profile Oct 7 2007, 05:22 AM Post #8


MAJOR


Group: Full Members
Posts: 638
Joined: 12-October 06
Member No.: 11,147
Location: NewZealand

Ah, that PDF. I was looking at the wrong forum :Sighs: Yep we own him.

[kams]

Ah, that PDF. I was looking at the wrong forum :Sighs: Yep we own him.

Which other PDf you are talking about? Are there 2 of them?

[MarquezRazor]

What sparked the deadly clashes in tribal Pakistan

B Raman
October 10, 2007

About 200 members of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, the jihadi group allied to Al Qaeda [Images], and the Pashtun tribal group led by Baitullah Mehsud and about a hundred members of the Pakistani security forces -- mostly para-military personnel -- have been killed in violent clashes around the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan since October 6. The clashes started after the terrorists ambushed a convoy of the security forces in North Waziristan, inflicting an undisclosed number of fatalities and capturing some Pakistani security personnel.

The dead bodies of the some of the security forces personnel were later found abandoned with their throats slit. A jirga of leading North Waziristan clerics led by former member of the National Assembly, Maulana Nek Zaman Haqqani, after daylong negotiations, received 30 bodies of the slain soldiers from the jihadis in Khaisur and handed them over to military officials in Mir Ali.

The News, a well-informed daily newspaper, quoted an unidentified jirga member as claiming on October 8, that the jirga members had recovered 73 bodies of soldiers, majority of which were burnt or badly mutilated, from the Mir Ali villages that they had visited.

Malik Sher Khan, a local tribal elder, said 45 bodies of soldiers had been handed over to military officials in Mir Ali. Quoting a local government official, The News reported as follows: 'Very few of the over 200 soldiers besieged by militants on Sunday (October 7) seem to have survived after the deadliest ever attack on them.'

Following the discovery of over a dozen mutilated dead bodies, either beheaded or with their throats slit, of paramilitary personnel captured earlier by Baitullah Mehsud's men, the paramilitary forces ran amok. Some surrendered to the terrorists, others discarded their uniforms and took shelter in the homes of the residents of the area and some others went on a killing spree, indiscriminately killing the local villagers and the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs living in Mir Ali.

The Pakistani security forces retaliated initially with ground troops and helicopter gunships. Subsequently, unable to prevail over the jihadi forces, they called for an air strike. Major General Waheed Arshad, an army spokesman, claimed in a TV interview that Pakistan Air Force planes targeted militant hideouts and struck 'one or two places' near Mir Ali. Local villagers said PAF aircraft also bombed a village near Mir Ali called Hader Khel. There was a large number of fatalities of civilians on October 9, when some bombs fell on a crowded village market.

Till March, Mir Ali used to be the headquarters of the Islamic Jihad Group, a break-away group of the IMU. It is also known as the Islamic Jihad Union. It ran a number of training camps there where jihadis from many countries, including Germany [Images], China's Xinjiang, and Pakistan itself were trained by Uzbek and Chechen instructors. The IMU's headquarters used to be in the Azam Warsak area of South Waziristan.

This area became the scene of violent attacks by sections of the local tribals on the Uzbeks living in the area following the alleged murder of a local tribal personality by an Uzbek resident of the area in the third week of March. In the ensuing clashes, nearly 100 persons were killed -- about 70 Uzbeks and the remaining locals mainly belonging to the Darikhel and the Tojikhel sub-tribes of the Pashtuns. The Yargulkhel sub-tribe led by Noor Islam and his brother Haji Omar, two important pro-Taliban military commanders who had once fought in Afghanistan, supported the Uzbeks in their fight against the Darikhels and the Tojkhels. Some Yargulkhels were also killed. Ultimately, the IMU was forced to evacuate South Waziristan and shift to Mir Ali.

Following this, I had reported, 'According to well-informed sources in the police of the North-West Frontier Province, the Mir Ali area of North Waziristan in the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan is under the effective control of the IMU headed by Qari Tahir Yaldeshev. Small groups of Chechens and Uighurs are also present in the area. They work under the overall command of Qari Tahir. They were being helped by Maulana Sadiq Noor, a local tribal leader close to the Neo Taliban.

'The IMU, with the help of Chechen instructors, has set up training camps in the area for training the recruits of the Neo Taliban, the jihadi terrorist organisations of Pakistan and individual jihadis from abroad -- particularly from the Pakistani Diaspora abroad. In a report on the ground situation in the North Waziristan area, the Dawn of Karachi stated as follows on July 29: 'The problem now is that the situation in Miranshah has worsened to an unusual extent. In a letter to the government, that sounded more like a lamentation, a political agent stated that the khasadars (tribal police) had abandoned their duty without seeking his permission. All those appointed for 599 posts of the levies force had renounced their responsibilities and officers of the line departments had left their offices at the mercy of watchmen. Little wonder then that a line department office and a check-post are blown up every day. Junior tribal officers and moharrirs (clerks) have not reported for work and tribal elders remain too scared to meet the political administration for fear of reprisal attacks from militants.'

Independent sources say that there is a total administrative collapse in the area, with very little governance. This chaos and anarchy have been spreading to the adjoining Bannu and other areas of the NWFP. The Pakistan Army, despite the claims of General Pervez Musharraf [Images], is not in a position to restore its authority in the area. At the same time, it is reluctant to let the US forces in nearby Afghan territory mount covert actions against these elements lest it further aggravate the jihadi anger against Musharraf in the tribal and non-tribal areas.

Instead of making too many statements on the options available to the US, which are proving counter-productive, the US should authorise its commanders on the ground in the Afghan territory to mount any covert action in Pakistani territory in the North Waziristan area within a certain depth, if such action is warranted by intelligence of terrorist operations under preparation.

After the Pakistani commando raid in Islamabad's Lal Masjid between July 10 and 13, the Mehsuds of Baitullah joined hands with the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group and started instigating suicide terrorist attacks not only in FATA areas and the NWFP, but also outside the tribal belt -- even in places like Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

Coinciding with the raid, the government sent reinforcements of security forces to North Waziristan. This was interpreted by sections of the local tribals as a violation of the peace agreement signed with them by the Pakistan Army in September 2006, and as a prelude to attacks on the headquarters of the IMU and the Islamic Jihad Group.

They kidnapped nearly 300 members of the paramilitary forces and threatened to kill them at the rate of three a day if their followers in government custody were not released and the reinforcements were not withdrawn.

Following the arrest in Germany in September of three German Muslims trained in the camps of the Islamic Jihad Group in the Mir Ali area, who were allegedly planning to attack a US military base in Germany, the Musharraf government came under increased pressure from the US to act against the pro-Al Qaeda jihadis in the Mir Ali area.

There was similar pressure from the Chinese, who were concerned over the attacks on Chinese nationals working in Pakistan after the Lal Masjid raid. Even apart from these pressures, the worsening security situation in the tribal belt forced the Pakistani security forces to act against the Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs and their local tribal supporters.

Reports from the NATO forces in Afghanistan of the presence of increasing numbers of Uzbeks, Chechens and Uighurs with the Neo Taliban forces operating in Afghan territory added to the pressure for action. Responding to these pressures, the Pakistani government started sending further reinforcements to the area. It was a jihadi attack on one of the convoys carrying these reinforcements which triggered off the latest round of deadly clashes.

The writer is additional secretary (retired), Cabinet Secretariat,Government of India, New Delhi, and, presently, director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai. He is also associated with the Chennai Centre For China Studies. E-mail: [email protected]

Linky