breaking bad news....

[dave angel]

in light of 're-inforced' guidance from the UK CoC regarding 'unauthorised contact with the media', i was wondering how WAB members made decisions about what they would and wouldn't say in any public forum - be that on the internet or down the pub - about matters that while military, and therefore falling well within the 'you learnt about this while in service so you'll never breathe a word of it to anyone' line, but which either don't remotely fall within OPSEC, or indeed may fall within OPSEC, but which are of such critical importance that you, as a professional soldier/intelligence officer/diplomat/senior civil servant, fell that such information should be placed in the public domain anyway?

a kind of similar discussion - though it got hijacked half way through - took place on Arrse when Newsnight (flagship 45 min BBC news/current affairs programme) contacted Arrse to ask if serving soldiers would contribute - annymously - to a programme on Iraq.

British Army Rumour Service > > Forums > > The Serious Bit > > Current Affairs, News and Analysis > > Newsnight - The British Army in Iraq - Your Views...

[Officer of Engineers]

Captain,

I had to think long and hard about this. My usual rule is that I don't talk about any ongoing operation even if the media already is discussing it. I don't speak about anything not already in public domain. I don't guess about future operations in case I am right.

But when the public needs to know and the National HQ has clamp down, my answer is do I respect the person giving that order. If it is Hilliar whom I trust completely, yes, I would. If it was de Chastalain, then I would open my mouth. In either case, my judgment is "Is this worth a court martial?" I don't mean as I am afraid for myself but rather is the information worth the effort of a court martial in order to bring it out.

[Maxor]

Most of the stuff I know of has to do with technical details that are really very obviously not for public comsumption the rest is generally stuff that is confidential but people can put together from public sources anyways. I therefore don't worry about it that much.

[wabpilot]

I am retired. But, I have a daughter who is on active duty in the USAF. I avoid talking about current operations, except in political terms. The political views are mine, and mine alone. Sometimes, I do discuss capabilities. When I quote specifics I have an open source for them. Where I have classified knowledge, and I have an unclassifed source, I will quote from the unclassified one. Hence, I am much more likely to talk about the Falklands war than the Iraq war.

[The Chap]

No-one ever tells me anything anyway.

Even if I attempted actively divulge "stuff" I'm quite certain it would be slured nonsense beyond the efforts of the very best linguists and cryptography.:)

Regarding leaks etc. well ... the legal issues are rather involved in the UK. Given the all encompassing sin of depriving someone of their "Human Rights" or worse breaching " 'elf an sayfti" guidines it maywell be perfectly defensible under EU Human Rights legislation to walk away without tarnish. This is, of course predicated upon the notion that the civ. application of libel, slander etc. cannot be superceeded by exra-judial whims:)

[dundonrl]

I don't post anything you can't find on the military's websites.. don't want too get myself and others into trouble...

[bigjim000]

Though I understand that may people cannot discuss certain subject for very good reason, I feel the way those at the top use blanket gagging as a way to stop "Inconvenient" information from being put out in the public domain disconcerting. This is worsened by th effect that most senior personnel are political animals with one eye on awards or a future in politics. This means that we only receive the "Official" view of events which is usually "Everything is under control". When a politician is questioned about an incident, say lack of a piece of equipment, his usual reply is that nobody has told him. Well of course nobody is going to tell him what is wrong and by inference what he has got wrong, this would be career suicide.

The Armed Forces of many nations are now more active than at anytime during WWII. Yet most countries defense budget is on a peacetime footing. Politicians use Military Operations as Campaign material and as most current Politicians have now experience of conflict only listen to part of the story. Because of the heavy "Spin" barrier between the Military and the General Public, the latter do not fully understand what the Military is doing for their Countries, and the Military has a hard time convincing others that it needs more resources. There is a need for the real situation to be told. This doesn't mean that OP SEC has to be breached, and I am sure those who would speak out would not state any genuine sensitive issues, but this blanket gagging prevents constructive discussion and distances the public from the Military. How can the public support our service men and women if they do not know the real story.

How many items of good news have come out of current operational theaters. Very little, but we do hear when each and every Civilian, Soldier, Sailor and Airman/woman is killed or injured. We hear of mistakes or errors but not of achievements and successes. Is it no wonder our men and women come home to a non event of a welcome.

The men and women in the Armed forces do an amazing job with minimum equipment. They have a "Can do" attitude that has plastered over the cracks for decades. This was fine in the past but now lives are at stake. I know politics and war are firmly linked but the imbalance is too great. If the politicians feel war is necessary then they have to fund it properly and have the will to see it through. They must allow those at the front line to have there say in the public domain, but trust them not to leak genuinely sensitive information. Just because a Politician might be embarrassed doesn't mean it doesn't need to be said.

[furkensturker]

bigjim000
New Member

Join Date: 09-28-07
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 4
Country: [United Kingdom]

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Firstly, I see you're a new member, Welcome to the forum. There a fairly good bunch here, although you need to watch out for Tankie He has a bad attitude towards us from the intipities

As for passing on classified or sensitive material; Those who do that are running the risk of putting military personell at risk and jepodising current and possible future operations not to mention trying to big note themselves.
The thought of a striped suntan does not appeal to me.

I've been out of the "loop" for too long to know anything that is currently happening apart from what I see on TV read in the Aust Army newspaper that is in the public domain.

Taking it to the extreme, all countries have had their fair share of KGB and CIA operatives trying to gather information. How do you know the person down the pub is not a spy? While some may see it as being a bit melodramatic, it happens, especially if you work in a sensitive area. Just because the cold war is over there is still a threat.

Freddie

[Maggot]

It's one thing to discuss something in the news, from a political viewpoint, but if you have sensitive operational knowledge, blogging it is about the dumbest thing you could be doing. I still talk to a lot of my buddies who are still in and still doing tours and if they confide in me, they know that trust isn't going to be broken.

It's one thing to talk to the press on a personal level, but if you're doing so as a representative of a regiment and a mission, you should keep that in mind . A lot of militaries want a more press friendly military to connect better with the hearts and minds at home, but it's not like common soldiers get courses on media relations tacked onto battle school. Besides, the media are there to spin whatever they get, however they want it. You're at the mercy of editors and media owners for what slant they want. Unless you're the one spinning them, they'll take you on a ride every time. I sure don't trust the bastards to do their job without messing with the facts.

[bodie]

I read a different thread in your topic:
Breaking bad news to relatives regarding in-service members.
That was a real shyte job and one I am glad I no longer have to do.

[Feanor]

Taking it to the extreme, all countries have had their fair share of KGB and CIA operatives trying to gather information. How do you know the person down the pub is not a spy? While some may see it as being a bit melodramatic, it happens, especially if you work in a sensitive area. Just because the cold war is over there is still a threat.

Freddie

Hell they might be a spy without even knowing it!!! I only found out recently, that actually I have a secret agenda on these forums! And here was naive me thinking I was an innocent by stander ;)

But realistically, if it's classified, you shouldn't be talking about it, unless it's already been leaked.

[sappersgt]

Brave men all

I read a different thread in your topic:
Breaking bad news to relatives regarding in-service members.
That was a real shyte job and one I am glad I no longer have to do.

I never enjoyed writing those letters. Sometimes doing it in person was worse. One in particular still stays with me.

When we were stood down in Namibia myself and the third platoon commander took the option of hitching a ride rather than wait two days for transportation. We rode with an engineer from the Mariental power station down to DeAar but first I had to stop in Britstown to drop off the personal effects of one of my men.

His father was a retired Sergeant Major so he wasn't going believe the story I had concocted about his only sons painless and instantaneous death. The man wanted the truth and out of respect for another soldier I told him. In truth he was shot while standing right next to me, by a sniper who was probably aiming for me. It took a long time for him to die.

The Sergeant Major brought us out some beers and asked me to tell him about his son. He flat out told me that his son was crappy soldier. I told him he may have troubles before I got him but I gave his son a clean slate and he flew right for me. I was glad to be able to tell his father that for me he was a good soldier, performing well under fire and a real asset. It was hard enough having to tell a father of the loss of his son, I'm glad I didn't have to lie.

The final disposition of your men can be hard. In the field I carried a can of insecticide to spray the bodily orifices of casualties to keep the insects down. Hopefully that meant they could have an open casket funeral. When I told the Sergeant Major with tears in his eyes he thanked me for his mother. I did get a card thanking me for taking care of his son.