France vs the UK

[Gio]

Who do you guys think would win?

I think France.

[ChrisF202]

UK, France dosent have the capabilities to transport troops overseas

[Martin]

The United Kingdom of course. France has never beaten us before - even when it had a bigger navy and allied with Spain - It lost. The French don't have the stomach to beat us.

As I've just said to Gio on MSN... We would sink their carrier, we have tomohawks, we have a better trained army - and... We're more intelligent - it was proven.

[ChrisF202]

exactly

[Officer of Engineers]

EXCUSE ME!!!!!

How did you guys think the FFL (French Foreign Legion) got to the Congo, Rwanda, and to Afghanistan. How do you guys think French cmdos got into Afghanistan?

You're allowing your American bias intefere with the facts.

[ChrisF202]

Thats one unit, an elite unit and they dont have very many transport assets meaning they cant send large number of troops overseas at any given moment.

[Officer of Engineers]

Tell me the distance.

Only six powers can transport bde size forces half way across the globe (US, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Russia) on their own. Other countries can field larger local forces but only these six can field forces that can challenge them far from their shores.

I would remind you that the French fielded a div during the Kuwait War.

This being said, we're going to bn and coy when everybody else is sticking to div. What do you think who's better?

[troung]

Ok in the air the French Air Force has better fighter. The Tornado is not up to the Mirage 2000C or the Mirage 2000-5C. For strike the both have similar stand off missiles, the RAF/RN lack air launched anti shipping missiles so the French Air Force would no doubt savage them with Exocets. The Sea Harrier was not capable agianist the SuE, it would not stand up well with a Mirage F-1CT (which can use the Exocet).

And France has moved large numbers of troops very far around the world (Chad, Congo, Korea, Afganistan, Kuwait, Vietnam, Comoros Islands, Somalia etc...).

[Gio]

Yup...

[bigross86]

If that happened the UK would get an amazing infusion of the best of US weaponry. The air war would be over in a few days, and once the British Challengers and Abrams tanks starting romping through the streets of Paris, the ground war would be pretty much over too...

[troung]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[bigross86]

If you are referring to my post, please explain instead of just rolling your eyes.

[Officer of Engineers]

I've worked with/fought besides both FREBAT (Medak) and BRITBAT (Sarajevo). They're both good soldiers and can be just as arrogant as us Canucks.

Both forces are similar in outlook in that they're expeditionary in nature, meaning that they no longer expect to fight on their home soil or even Western European soil. As such, they have been tailoring their lift and forces to such scenarios. French light tanks were designed to be airlifted and while obviously not provide sufficient force against East Bloc armour, they were designed to cut African armies apart like they did to the Lybians in Chad. Lybia doesn't have an army anymore because the FFL dressed as Chadian tribesmen killed it.

The British, however, has committed to ABCA and sees the need for heavy armour in order to support the Americans or to mount their own limited expedition (ala Falklands). They have the Royal Navy, basing on the Ready Amphibious Group, that would allow them to go in first and then follow up by the heavier forces.

Seriously folks, this event is not going to happen. We're too integrated and as much as we hate each other, we need each other much more. Whatever our grievances, we've learned to let the courts decide instead of marching out on the battlefield.

If you're really interested in these outcomes, I suggest you all try the wargame TACOPS which is based upon JANUS, the wargame that I used at Command School.

Be advised that this is not your typical computer wargame with lots of bangs and nice graphics. It has an extremely large database of countries' ORBAT and TOE and you can tailor the ORBAT and TOE to your liking though you may have to substitute equivelent systems from those that the spooks haven't figured out yet - ie, use the Russian T-80 in place of the Chinese T-90.

[Bill]

UK wins.

Too many carriers for France to deal with(3). The UK can actually form a nice sized battlegroup, France cannot(France has just the DeGaulle).

RN Sea Harriers have excellent radars and all are equipped to handle the AIM-120 AMRAAM.

Type 42 DDG's have the old, but still quite good, combat proven Sea Dart SAM/SSM for antiship duties, as well as all the Duke FFG's which have Harpoons and the excellent Sea Wolf PMDS.

Sea Harriers can fire the Sea Eagle antiship cruise missile.

Doubtful that Exocet is going to penetrate the Sea Dart/Sea Wolf screen.

France on the other hand is sorely lacking in fleet AAW capability.

The UK also has better SSN's(Trafalgar vs. Rubis), and i'd lay money on the training and professionalism of the RN any day.

France's only advantadge at sea is it's Degaulle based E-2's.

UK also has a large Tornado fleet for LR antiship missions using the above mentioned Sea Eagle and ALARM.

[troung]

To my knowledge the RN/RAF pulled out the Sea Eagle with no replacment.