To OOE, Winter Campaigns

[sparten]

Sir, I was just finishing up reading about the Punic Wars, and it seems Scipio went into winter quaters during his time in N Africa. Now I know it 200 BC it was a better climate then today,and also N Africa can be a lot colder than people think, but it got me thinking. When did winter campaigns become practical? What made them so.

IIRC the Mongols managed to conquer Russia in winter, the frozen rivers made them easier to cross. Go figure.

[Blademaster]

When did winter campaigns become practical? What made them so.

When they managed to solve the problems of logistics of keeping the army well fed, well clothed and plenty of fuel for fire during times of winter, then it became practical for winter campaigns but only for as a last resort and always prepared to fight if the unexpected attack came during the midst of winter or there was a clearly favorable result if a successful attack could be made during winter.

Nevertheless, the danger of fighting in a winter campaign is 10 times higher than in a spring, summer or fall campaign because of frostbite, cold, pnuemonia, and even food poisoning because of lack of fuel for cooking.

[Officer of Engineers]

When did winter campaigns become practical? What made them so.

I think you've missed the section about Hannibal crossing the Alps. Winter campaign, like all other campaigns, are a matter of will, not convience. Winter affects both sides. Some didn't have a choice in the matter. The original Turkic migration was caused by a lack of grazing for their herds. They had to move regardless of winter or summer.

The history of the North American First Nations are riddled with winter raiding parties and the Inuit did not recoil from conflict just because it was cold.

[sparten]

Hannibalss crosssing of the Alps was more of an attempt to surprise/flank the Romans was'nt it. People have been making such surprise winter assualts for ages. What I ment was sir, the ability to carry out sustained winter operations year after year, like we saw in WWII. In the ACW, the two winter campaigns that were carried out were disasters, Fredricksburg, Mud March in 1862/63 and the Nashville campaign of the Confederates in winter 0f 1864.

[Officer of Engineers]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Hannibal certainly carried his campaign into the winter while in Italy. The 100 Years War certainly had winter campaigns left, right, and center. The Taiping Rebellion didn't let up just because winter was coming around. George Washington crossed the Delaware in his surprise attack and carried on the fight afterwares.

Those are examples of men carrying on the fight in the dead of winter.

[sparten]

What I mean sir is that when did people begin to reasonable expect to carry on campaigns with the change of the season rather than go into winter quaters.

[Blademaster]

What I mean sir is that when did people begin to reasonable expect to carry on campaigns with the change of the season rather than go into winter quaters.

When they have no choice but to carry on for the sake of their survival.

[Officer of Engineers]

What I mean sir is that when did people begin to reasonable expect to carry on campaigns with the change of the season rather than go into winter quaters.

Gotcha!

The Napoleonic Wars where for the 1st time, they used canned goods and hence, greatly reduced the need to live off the land which was up until that point, the greatest limiter of winter warfare.

[sparten]

So it was logistics? Thought so. But it seemd to have been pretty primitive at best as Napoleons retreat from Russia showed. So winter campaigns became in that time common place, rather than a strategic surprise. Related question, why did the Armies in the US Civil War go into winter quaters then. You would expect with rail roads it would be far easier to supply troops.

[Officer of Engineers]

So it was logistics? Thought so. But it seemd to have been pretty primitive at best as Napoleons retreat from Russia showed.

Napoleon over-stretched his supply lines and even then, he did take Moscow. However, his LOC collapsed also due to winter since his supply trains were hindered by both winter and Cossacks.

So winter campaigns became in that time common place, rather than a strategic surprise.

Well, ... no. Even today, winter warfare requires alot bigger effort than good weather. What it does mean is that you can no longer assume the guy is going to get warm instead of coming out to fight.

Related question, why did the Armies in the US Civil War go into winter quaters then. You would expect with rail roads it would be far easier to supply troops.

Mud and deep snow. You can't exactly march an entire corps across country when you're sinking knee deep in mud.