What if battleships, fictional

JRT:

"We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
 
Did I hear......

Did I hear......

RustyBattleship said:
JRT:

"We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
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Someone say Fletcher ???? :biggrin:
 
View attachment 32007

An ironclad cruiser, about 1890
9000t
20 knots, 16000 shp 2 VTE, 4 water tube boilers, coal
4x10"/40
4x5"/50
4x12pdr
10" Compound armor belt, 6" upper, fwd and aft belts, 12" turrets, 1.5" deck, 6" gunsheilds, 12" CT (2)
390'x65'x24'
 
Wisconsin,

Have you given any thought to a completely cast armored citadel? The IJN Yamato used the armor as a structural member I believe (with crappy rivetted joints). I'm thinking about forming a BBs armor much like form molded modern cement building. Except that the citadel is formed out of steel and then some how heat treated later. Bow and stern merely add to the flotation of the citadel.
 
Gun Boat said:
Wisconsin,

Have you given any thought to a completely cast armored citadel? The IJN Yamato used the armor as a structural member I believe (with crappy rivetted joints). I'm thinking about forming a BBs armor much like form molded modern cement building. Except that the citadel is formed out of steel and then some how heat treated later. Bow and stern merely add to the flotation of the citadel.
Click to expand...

Cast armor was abandoned on ships in the the mid-19th century. It is too brittle and heavy. Forged armor was preferred for durability and weight. Heat treating was normally done at the armor mill, since it was not practical one the the ship had been assembled. The Japanese were pioneers in the use of armor as a structural material, though the USN also did this. The citadel was normally a part of the structural strength of the vessel, whether the armor was bolted to the structure or formed the hull's structural members directly with no underlying plates - as in the the 1920's Japanese cruiser designs.
 
RustyBattleship said:
JRT:

"We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
Click to expand...


I remember my old man talking about catching sharks in Port Au Prince Haiti.. they made large hooks, put meat on them and threw them off the fan tail.. used the ship's capstan to winch them up.. they had "a bigger boat"... 14,000 tons full load, 455 ft long.. big enough for even Jaws..
 
USSWisconsin said:
Cast armor was abandoned on ships in the the mid-19th century. It is too brittle and heavy. Forged armor was preferred for durability and weight. Heat treating was normally done at the armor mill, since it was not practical one the the ship had been assembled. The Japanese were pioneers in the use of armor as a structural material, though the USN also did this. The citadel was normally a part of the structural strength of the vessel, whether the armor was bolted to the structure or formed the hull's structural members directly with no underlying plates - as in the the 1920's Japanese cruiser designs.
Click to expand...

Borrowing from the main battle tanks for modern warship applications, have you looked at using a layer of Chobham armor applique in the higher locations, maybe with a layer of explosive reactive armor over that? That wouldn't be applicable in the older what-if warships, but should be applicable later on as those technologies were developed. And perhaps it might be argued that more funding in warship armor research might have resulted in earlier development.
 
JRT said:
Borrowing from the main battle tanks for modern warship applications, have you looked at using a layer of Chobham armor applique in the higher locations, maybe with a layer of explosive reactive armor over that? That wouldn't be applicable in the older what-if warships, but should be applicable later on as those technologies were developed. And perhaps it might be argued that more funding in warship armor research might have resulted in earlier development.
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Yes, the Chobham type armor should be good on ships, I have designed most of my large modern warship ships with it, the ER armor I am not as confident about on ships in the superstructure and on the deck, because of potential colateral damage, though it is used inthe PVLS systems, it is not a first line of defense in that case, there it is only engaging when the missile magazine is ignited. I am not inclined to use it on centerline gun turrets, but for the belt or magazines close to the hull side for outboard protection does make sense. Against AShM threats I believe they both have merits.

Here are a few sketches from about a year ago, the first two use Chobham/composite armor to provide immune zones from 5" fire, al have splinter protection to enhance survivability, PVLS have venting to provide ER type protection. The final design (BBGN) has both composite and ER armor.

I have been considering a SWATH gunboat or small aviation cruiser, haven't gotten a drawing finished yet though.
 
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A pair of ships for my imaginary WWII navy. ;)

View attachment 32920
Super heavy BB: 100,000 tons, 32 knots, 12 x 18"/47 (4x3), 26 x 5"/38 (13x2), 120 x 30mm (30x4). 230,000 SHP, 16" belt @ 20 deg, 8" deck, 18" barbettes, 24" turret faces, 30' TDS (each side). 980'x160'x32'. 10 x DP gun directors (5.5" sides, 3" top, 6" tube). Cross deck twin/double ended catapult aft, w/ armored deck elevator and 4 AC (4 in below deck storage, 1- 2 addition AC w/deck storage aft) helicopter landing area on fantail. Rear internal boat stowage and deck stowage between stacks, 12 large boats (1:1 mix of 30'-40', 50' max with 8 boats) total (18 w/o aircraft). 30' motor whale boats, 40' cutters and gigs, 50' armed patrol boats)

Equipped as a flagship (w/staff of 200), very comfortable accommodation for the entire crew of 2400, not including Flagship staff. 2 crew's mess and galleys, CPO, Officers, Capt and Admirals galleys. Ship has total bunk accommodations for 2800.

Enlisted men: separate bunk rooms with 12 men each, racks w/mattresses stacked two high, 24 lockers, 1 toilet, 1 urinal , 2 sinks and 1 shower in each room.

CPO's have 6 man bunk rooms, 18 lockers, same plumbing as 12 man enlisted room with privacy wall.
Jr officers: 2 bunks not stacked, 2 desks 2 chairs, sink and urinal. Shared washroom for jr Officers: 3 sinks, 2 showers and 3 toilets, 3 urinals, privacy partitions for toilets (for 12 men).
Sr officers: private room, port hole, toilet, sink and shower, large bunk, desk, 2 chairs.

Capt cabins: 3 cabins: Sea cabin- 4 rooms (conference/dining room, office, bedroom, bathroom) , port cabin - 5 rooms (conference/dining room, sitting room, office, bedroom, bathroom) and bridge cabin - 2 rooms (bedroom, bathroom, all Capt's rooms have portholes).

Admiral Suites (2): 8 rooms,conference/dining room, office, sec. office, sitting room w/fireplace, library, master suite w/bathtub and guest bedrooms, bathroom (bedrooms, sitting room and office with portholes). One admirals bridge cabin (same as Capt's).

View attachment 32921
Super cruiser: 24,000 tons, 34 knots, 12x7"/60 (4x3), 12 x 5"/54 (6x2), 20 x 3"/50 (10x2), 20 x23" Torpedo tubes (4x5), 900'x100'x30', 6" belt @ 20 deg, 4" deck, 9" barbettes, 10" turret faces, 160,000 SHP, 20' TDS (each side). Internal boat storage for 8 large boats (1:1 mix of 30'-40', 50' max with 6 boats - types as in BB). 6 x DP gun directors (3.5" sides, 3" top, 4" tube). Crew 1500, no aviation facilities, except helicopter landing area on fantail.

Both ships have a 2.5" bomb deck, keel mounted anchors, and maneuvering thrusters fore and aft. A Medium cruiser? (because of 7" guns)

I wouldn't want to face these in anything that was actually built - Yamato bring Musashi, you'll need it... :biggrin:

Imagine a battle similar to the action in the Denmark Strait, with both the Yamato class ships trying to run down these beasties, sent out to maim the Japanese fleet - and meeting a fate like the HMS Hood with both of them. What an ugly surprise when they find out they aren't the only ones with 18" guns, and they've only got nine on their ships.
 
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RustyBattleship said:
JRT:

"We need a bigger boat". I have always thought that was the best bit of dialogue in the entire movie. Yeah. Something like a Fletcher class Destroyer --- minimum. With depth charge racks.
Click to expand...

Interesting bit of trivia: that line was NOT in the original script (I have a signed copy of the original script), Roy Schieder came up with that one on his own.
 
RIP my friend, we are the poorer, heaven the richer.
 
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