What if battleships, fictional

WWII AA battleship

WWII AA battleship

View attachment 25817
45,000 ton std disp. 900' x 108' x 25', 32 knots 4 screws, 2 rudders, 280,000 shp
12,000 nm @ 25 knots.
36 x 5"/54 (18 x 2), 25 rpm/g, 1200 rpg. Elevation: -5 to 85 deg.
124 x 40mm/60 (31x4), 100 rpm/g, 3500 rpg. Elevation: -5 to 85 deg.
8 x ADV radar gun directors
Armor: belt: 2" - 5", deck: 5" AD, 2" WD, gun houses: 3" sides and top and handling room sides, 2" sides, roof and 1" floors in magazines. Gun directors: 2" top, sides and comm tubes. Conning tower: 4" sides and roof. All armor is STS.
 
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Heavy BB design painting

Heavy BB design painting

late WWII heavy BB (fictional)
View attachment 25819
950' x 150' x 32'
triple framing: trav, long, trav, 2000 WT comp
90,000 tons std. disp, 31 knots, 6 screws - 420,000 SHP - 6 double reduction geared turbines, 12 boilers 750psi@900 deg F, 6 x 10 MW SSG's, 12 x 1 MW diesel gen. 4 rudders; Tactical radius 650 yd @ 23 knots, 15,000 nm @ 25 knots
Weapons: 15 x 16"/50 (5x3) 150 rpg, 4 rpm/gun, elevation -2 to 47 deg
36 x 90mm/55 (18 x 2) 1500 rpg, 30 rpm/g, elevation -5 to 85 deg
72 x 40mm/70 (12x6) 3500 rpg, 100 rpm/g, elevation -8 to 90 deg
10 x ADV radar gun directors.
Armor: belt (KC): 3.5" - 16", main turrets (KNC): 25" face , 8" top, 16" sides and rear, 90mm turrets: 4" face, 3" sides top and rear, 2.5" handling rooms, barbettes (KNC): 12"-18", bulkheads (KNC): 14" (fore and aft), deck: 2" WD, 8" AD (KNC), 1.5" SD, 3" inner keel (quadruple keel) shell: 1.5" upper, 1" lower and outer keel, main magazines: 3" sides, roof and 1.5" floors, AA Magazines (90mm & 40mm): 2.5" sides, roof, hoists and 1" floors. gun directors: 3" face, 2" top, sides, rear and comm tubes, conning tower (KNC): 16" sides, 8" roof, 2: floor, STS armor (120k PSI) unless otherwise noted.
 
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Heavy battleships

Heavy battleships

View attachment 26043
The scan lacks detail - the sky especially - it doesn't look anything like what we see here
Specs: 90,000 tons std disp. 990'x148'x30' Note the bulbous underwater hull form - shown at light load here
5 x~20', 130 rpm screws, 3 large rudders, 350,000 SHP, 10 boilers @ 900 psi, 900 deg F, 10 turbines - paired on triple reduction gears
32 knots, 700 yrd tactical radius @ 25 knots, 18,000 nm @ 20 knots, 12,000 nm @ 25 knots, 8,000 nm @ 30 knots
Armor: 18" gun protection, 2000# bomb protection @ 10,000', 24" torpedo protection (up to 3 hits w/o mission kill)
12x 17.7"/55 (4x3) Main Battery (45 deg max elevation)
28 x 5.4"/50 (14x2) DP (80 deg max elevation)
56 x 66mm/70 (14x4) AA VHMG (89 deg max elevation)
7 x 25mm/85 (7x1) anti boat HMG's- for close defense from PT boats or torpedo bomber AA (60 deg max elevation)
2 x Loon Launchers (8 Loons w/2200# warheads -improved V-1 copy)
View attachment 26044
detail of the tubular skegs and protected center prop
This 15 gun HBB has B turret only slightly above A turrets ( ~ 7') - to train forward, its three 17.7"/55 guns must be elevated
 
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Dreadnought said:
Five props? You been studying the irregular powered German (Kreigsmarine) battleships again?:biggrin:;)
Click to expand...

Looking for ways to put more power through to the water - and the center screw is protected between the skegs - as a last ditch propulsion system - with the 150' beam there is room for the extra screws without making them too small - I wanted to use big low speed screws for efficiency (~ 20' diameter, combined with the bulbous hull) and less noise to call to submarines from a distance.

with 3 big rudders - she should turn like a destroyer - even at 90K tons :biggrin::)


It has been an ongoing development - trying to invent the ultimate battleship - kind of therapeutic I suppose :fish:

I know these are not going to be built - except in a fictional story - which may be a possibility;)
 
Outside of putting more SHP in the water she also must be longer and thinned a bit to glide instead of plowing.

You never know, just look what they did with the childrens cartoon "Star Blazers". You might just have to start looking upwards instead of downwards...:biggrin:

Now you just have to get one to fly.;)
 
Dreadnought said:
Outside of putting more SHP in the water she also must be longer and thinned a bit to glide instead of plowing.

You never know, just look what they did with the childrens cartoon "Star Blazers". You might just have to start looking upwards instead of downwards...:biggrin:

Now you just have to get one to fly.;)
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:biggrin: Space Battleship Connecticut :cool:

I have an idea about using a flattened SSN submarine type underwater hull (the bow portion) - with a big bulbous bow that is wider below the waterline than the upper hull and doesn't pinch in behind the blunt nose but gradually widens into the big beam (which will make her very steady for gunnery and allow for a very deep TPS, without excessive draft - she will draw < 35' at emergency full load) - which has a giant flare at the weather deck level forward for sea-keeping. I've got lots of drawings of it - but haven't combined it well in a single picture yet - I hope to have an underwater painting soon - looking up at it from the harbor bottom. The skeg arrangement will be reminiscent of a bunch of submarine hulls tied together. I am thinking the prop speed should be < 145 rpm. I might have a prop design with water pumped into the prop and exiting through many small holes just behind the leading edges to reduce cavitation by creating a boundry layer. I am looking at the Nimitz hull as a model for the starting point - and coming up with changes to suit a battleship - my estimate is one shaft can provide 60-70k SHP with a 20'-22' prop at ~ 130 rpm.
 
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USSWisconsin said:
:biggrin: Space Battleship Connecticut :cool:

I have an idea about using a flattened SSN submarine type underwater hull (the bow portion) - with a big bulbous bow that is wider below the waterline than the upper hull and doesn't pinch in behind the blunt nose but gradually widens into the big beam (which will make her very steady for gunnery and allow for a very deep TPS, without excessive draft - she will draw < 35' at emergency full load) - which has a giant flare at the weather deck level forward for sea-keeping. I've got lots of drawings of it - but haven't combined it well in a single picture yet - I hope to have an underwater painting soon - looking up at it from the harbor bottom. The skeg arrangement will be reminiscent of a bunch of submarine hulls tied together. I am thinking the prop speed should be < 145 rpm. I might have a prop design with water pumped into the prop and exiting through many small holes just behind the leading edges to reduce cavitation by creating a boundry layer. I am looking at the Nimitz hull as a model for the starting point - and coming up with changes to suit a battleship - my estimate is one shaft can provide 60-70k SHP with a 20'-22' prop at ~ 130 rpm.
Click to expand...

Those ending figures will be constrained to what the displacement is and how fast you expect it to move, keep in mind being able to move at an appreciated speed (minimum in order to outrun a sub before it can achieve a firing positon) with reduced machinery available if damaged.

In few words...backup redundancy within a stated criteria.
 
View attachment 26052View attachment 26053
Triple redundancy (at least) is employed through out - even in the armor scheme and keels with angled traverse armor bulkheads forward. In addtion to shellfire, there is extensive bomb and torpedo protection. Expect her to resist 2000# bombs and be able to survive two 24" torpedo hits on one side and at least three (if both sides are hit) without being mission killed - sinking her would take much more - but operations should be able to continue with the specified level of damage. She will resist 18" gunfire. She is designed to sink the Yamato class by herself - though she is fabulously expensive to build.

3 engine sections each of them has three longitudinal bulkheads making nine large watertight compartments for the propulsion - the electrical generation is even more spread out - with 3 more WT compartments housing SSG's outside of the main engine rooms (boilers are above the turbines) - and the six diesel generator rooms are all located in additional WT compartments fore and aft of these - with even more redundancy - the three rudders each have their own compartments too - I am planning to use a traverse bow thruster for docking and emergency maneuvering as well - and the anchors (3) are keel mounted with one aft of the center and two forward - but widely spaced.

Speeds are projected at 31-32 knots - with economical cruise at 20 knots and high speed cruise at 25 knots.
estimate
18,000 nm @ 20 knots
12,000 nm @ 25 knots
6,000 nm @ 30 knots

perhaps I will build a scratch built model of her someday - when the design is finalized - many "spring styles" are in the works- though they are really "summer styles":)

and they are all for fun - none would ever be built today - historical studies with modern improvements that could be accomplished using period tech.
 
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gun sketches

gun sketches

Thinking about heavier AA
140mm/50 secondaries (Autoloading medium DP) 4 men in turret during battle, one part ammo fed to guns via a chain conveyor belt loop - ammo is assembled in the 2nd level handling room with appropriate projectiles (VT-AA, ASh-SAP, shore bombardment: (HC, Frag, WP), illumination) - the magazine elevator room is on the third level down, four 30 round drums in the upper handling room feed the guns from below, casings ejected onto deck
66mm/70 quad tertiary (Very heavy AA MG) These operate unmanned - though there is room for servicing - all personnel is located below deck in battle - the ammo is one part, and is feed from the bottom of the gun via a chain conveyor belt loop from eight 60 round drums in the upper handling room (the guns have a switch to use alternate ammunition from the second set of drums, or they can be used with the same ammo for sustained firing - one drum loading - the other firing)- ejection from the top - cases ejected on to the decks. With the Main gun turret trained forward - four ammo drums can be loaded into a recess in the rear of the turret, a splinter sheild is provided, this gives the turret top 66mm quad mount a capacity of 240 rounds for the four guns - 60 rounds more with the feed train full and a round chambered in each tube.

The guns receive ammo horizontally positioned for loading, with the projectile facing the breach - no manipulation required to reposition the ammo. The shell is fed into the breach without any manual handling - the loader handles exceptions - but does not normally touch the ammunition. A trainer and pointer are present to aim the gun - in manual mount control, but power control from the gun director is normally used. A gun captain manages the gun crew and supervises the mount overall. Burst fire rate can empty one drum at maximum RoF, a brief cut over to the second drum, and max RoF is again achieved for the next drum. The 66mm is water cooled (breach and first 3' of the barrel), the 140mm is air cooled but has a dry air purge which serves to cool the gun between rounds. The guns can fire two drums before reducing RoF for cooling needs.

Ammunition for AA duties has VT fusing, time fusing optional and fuses set automatically in the conveyor on the way to the breach. The shells themselves are continuous rod type (140mm opens to a 30' ring and 66mm opens to a 10' ring) with special aluminum impregnated TNT/RDX filler, giving a explosive equivalence of 1.94:1 as compared to Comp B fillers. The 140mm AA projectiles weigh 88# and carry 28# of explosive, the forged high tensile steel 66mm projectiles weigh 10# have 2.3# of this explosive filler. These hypersonic "flying buzz saws" can easily cut an engine in half, chop off wings or cut through a fusalage end to end. One hit (or near miss) from either type will cut an aircraft into at least two pieces, to address the Kamikaze threats. The 140mm type can often destroy more than one aircraft with a single round if they are flying in close formation. The 66mm has an effective range of 10,000 yards and ceiling of 15,000', the 140mm has an effective range of 20,000 yards and a ceiling of 40,000'. With a combined RoF of 280 rpm, the 66mm mount is about 5 times more destructive than a quad 40mmThe training rates of the guns can address aircraft with speeds up to 500 mph, depending on the range.

The 450mm main guns are designed for a maximum range of 60,000 yards, and can handle super heavy 5.7 CRH AP rounds weighing 3,880#. Maximum RoF is 3 rpm/gun, with 170 rounds per gun carried. These can penetrate up to 19" of modern armor at battle ranges (30,000 yards) and 26" at 5,000 yards with a 90 deg incidence. Special 3750# APF ammunition has been provided with highly destructive fragmentation following penetration - to ensure maximum effect on target. A base ejection fragmentation section deploys 36 foot long 30# tungsten steel cutting segments at extreme velocity after the projectile has penetrated the target - these are intended to cut pipes, wires and destroy machinery. The HC type weighs 3,000# and carries 330# of advanced explosive of the type used in the smaller weapons - equivalent to 561# of Comp B filler. Five types of ammo are provided, including a 2,000# subcaliber sabotted long range 15" x 7 CRH bombardment projectile with a range of 90,000 yards and a 220# bursting charge (equivalent to a 550# GP aerial bomb). A 3,000# WP round is also provided, with 280# of filler.

AND YES, this is fictional - as the thread title states - so no need to remind me this isn't real.
 
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I want a nuclear powered semi submersible stealth battleship
4 main gun turrets- 1 x2 16/50 for putting the hurt down on people,
1 x2 14" smart rails firing 260mm saboted semi AI-guided penetrators with an explosive core,
torpedo tubes fore and aft but armed with ASW torpedoes,
big powerful sonar including towed array and decoy
double hull long and wide with a reenforced keel to defeat modern torpedoes.
VLS cells for SAMs, drones and cruise missiles
multiple heloes, marine detachment
maybe a dry well rear for a small marine detachment
integral command center
Aegis type phased array radar and Kolchuga type passive abilities
2 2x 8" for NGFS missions super firing over the main turrets
4 megawatt + tactical lasers 1 at each compass point for point defense
Topside surfaces thermally blocked from radiating interior heat except through closable vents and exterior topside equipped with a thermal/NBC washdown system to rapidly cool the ships topside with sea water so she goes invisible to thermal systems and covered in 3rd (4th) generation radar absorbing material.
ability to semi submerge to bring her free board to within just a couple feet of the seas surface to help hide her from space based assets when she isn't moving fast.

Pacific Ocean 300 miles off the Eastern Coast of Taiwan- Sir, Chinese sat coming overhead in 10 minutes... OK lets slow her down and hit the wash system, lets lower her down in the water as well...

Beijing- where the hell is that battleship... the carriers are here and here, and we know the Freighter Costco 115 saw her off the coast of Honolulu, but where is she now?
 
One thing y'all are forgetting regarding armament - in 1944/5 we were already developing guided missiles. Those BB's you've fictionalized should have missile launch decks, including nuclear-capable rocket launchers (the US was studying tactical nukes quite in-depth). The old AA tubs could be converted into SAM launchers, we'd developed those as well.
 
BB61Vet said:
One thing y'all are forgetting regarding armament - in 1944/5 we were already developing guided missiles. Those BB's you've fictionalized should have missile launch decks, including nuclear-capable rocket launchers (the US was studying tactical nukes quite in-depth). The old AA tubs could be converted into SAM launchers, we'd developed those as well.
Click to expand...

The 2nd picture in this post has some of this
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/ba...at-if-battleships-fictional-2.html#post746269

I've got a Nimitz hull modern BB design around here too - mostly armed with missiles - with a couple 16' AGS for gunnery work.

I like drawing the all gun "classical" battleships best, I know they won't be built, and the giants I like best would never have been practical - but they appeal to me - my own private Idaho I suppose.
 
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