The Rise of China forum

Which indirectly was my point too. The Parties entire compact with the Chinese people is 'we provide prosperity, you stay out of politics' or words to that effect.
That compact was broken once ... by the People. Tienanmen Square and the People were punished with a collapsed economy and bargain basement wages to recover their prosperity.

Now, Xi is no Deng and Xi does not command the Army (today's Purges) like Deng did but bargain basement wages Xi might risk if he aims to be the unifier of China.
 
Which indirectly was my point too. The Parties entire compact with the Chinese people is 'we provide prosperity, you stay out of politics' or words to that effect. Invading Taiwan is a coin toss for XI. China wins? He stays in power, but if it loses? He's out. The economy on the other hand is not a coin toss. Historic rising prosperity cemented XI's place in power. Every day the economy continues to perform has poorly has it has been in recent years is another day his grip on that power weakens (just a bit). This also, to my mind at least partly explains the increasing rate at which senior officials are being purged of late.
That's like saying that the US Government's legitimacy is based on economic prosperity (don't try that one on FDR); it isn't.
The Chinese Communist Party has many claims on legitimacy, including winning the civil war.
 
That's like saying that the US Government's legitimacy is based on economic prosperity (don't try that one on FDR); it isn't.
The Chinese Communist Party has many claims on legitimacy, including winning the civil war.
My comment wasn't about 'legitimacy' so much as staying in power. Sure, they won the war which entitled them to govern China but there's a big difference between 'governing' and governing well. It's the well but that concerns me because in this context it literally involves producing rising living standards for the Chinese people. That's been the 'deal' since China opened up to the world and started modernizing. Prior to then no such bargain was needed because the Chinese populous had no idea of what they were missing out on? Now? There's certainly no love lost by the citizens of China for the Communist Party, instead it's rule is tolerated in the proviso it continues to provide them with the living standards and opportunities they see the rest of the developed world enjoying.

That was easy enough at the start of the modernization program but now? They're starting to hit the same productivity barriers that Western economies have faced for a decade or more. All the low hanging 'growth' options have been picked.
 
My comment wasn't about 'legitimacy' so much as staying in power. Sure, they won the war which entitled them to govern China but there's a big difference between 'governing' and governing well. It's the well but that concerns me because in this context it literally involves producing rising living standards for the Chinese people. That's been the 'deal' since China opened up to the world and started modernizing. Prior to then no such bargain was needed because the Chinese populous had no idea of what they were missing out on? Now? There's certainly no love lost by the citizens of China for the Communist Party, instead it's rule is tolerated in the proviso it continues to provide them with the living standards and opportunities they see the rest of the developed world enjoying.

That was easy enough at the start of the modernization program but now? They're starting to hit the same productivity barriers that Western economies have faced for a decade or more. All the low hanging 'growth' options have been picked.
Again, that pact was broken and broken by the People. Not only did the CCP clamp down and clamp down hard but there was no rebellion, let alone revolutionary response by the People.
 
Again, that pact was broken and broken by the People. Not only did the CCP clamp down and clamp down hard but there was no rebellion, let alone revolutionary response by the People.
True, but I believe the point still stands. In China's case 'prosperity' was and still is the opiate of the people. It can be argued that Tiananmen Square was a student lead outlier sparked by the fall of the Berlin Wall. If nothing else though it certainly proves that the CCP is hardly beloved by the people it rules.
 
Western analysts have long pontificated about how the CCP has to deliver ever-rising prosperity, or face the wrath of The People.
Nonsense.

When standards of living rise from generation to generation, it really isn't all that easy to get angry enough to overthrow the regime.
 
Taking Out The Trash

At the October 23, 2025, conclusion of the 4th Plenary Session of the 20th Central Committee, eleven alternates were promoted to full membership in the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) Central Committee. None of them are particularly notable: From the provinces, they included the vice governor of Ningxia, the acting governor of Liaoning, the CCP secretary from Taiyuan, the mayor of Shenyang, and a Supervisory Commission chairman from Tianjin. At the central level, the State Council deputy secretary general, an Academy of Sciences materials science expert, and the chair of the China Grain Reserves Corporation received the nod.

Fourteen members were expelled from the party, including Military Affairs Commission (MAC) Vice Chair He Weidong and MAC member Miao Hua, the armed forces’ senior-most uniformed officer and its top political commissar, respectively. General He is the third MAC Vice Chair purged since Xi Jinping came to power in 2012; Admiral Miao is the second top political commissar to go.

Others from the People’s Liberation Army include the former second-ranked commissar, He Hongjun; PLA Ground Forces political commissar Qin Shutong, PLA Navy political commissar Yuan Huazhi, Joint Operations Command Executive Deputy Director Wang Xiubin, Eastern Theater Commander Lin Xiangyan, PLA Rocket Force base commander Major General Zhang Fengzhong, and People’s Armed Police commander Wang Chunning.

From the civilian side, Agriculture and Rural Affairs Minister Tang Renjian, Shanxi Governor Jin Xiangjun, Qinghai CCP Standing Committee member Yang Fasen, Shanghai Government Deputy Secretary General Zhu Zhisong, and former Yunnan Executive Vice Governor Li Shisong were also expelled.

https://english.news.cn/20251023/7c33cd03a3db49a6b419c6416d9e1caf/c.html

What is perhaps more revealing is those who were passed over.

Promotion from alternate to full member previously followed a strict rule: the candidate-member with the most votes who did not achieve full membership at the last meeting is first in line. The following were over-looked, and aside from one, not known to be in trouble:

Lt. General Ding Xingnong, PLA Rocket Force Deputy Political Commissar
Lt General Wang Liyan, Joint Support Force Commander
Lt General Wang Kangping, Eastern Theater Deputy Commander
Wang Jiayi, Education Ministry General Inspector
Lt General Fang Yongxiang, former Veteran Affairs Deputy Minister. Fang was purged in April 2025.
Fang Hongwei, Tsinghua University professor
Shi Yugang, Yunnan CCP Deputy Secretary
Lt General Shi Zhenglu, former Northern Theater Commander

This latest round of purges brings the number of general officers removed from the line of command to more than 65 by our count. One commentator observed that Mr Xi must not be worried about running out of highly qualified officers born in the 1960s and 1970s.
 
In a way it might make sense given the meteoric pace at which China's defense forces have been modernizing. Officers who commenced their careers in 80's might be a bit ... out of their depth might be the correct term when it comes to the rapid improvements in equipment & capabilities we're seeing which in turn necessitate new tactical and strategic doctrines. You could question how well suited to leading the 'new' Chinese armed forces officers who trained in the 80s would be given the antiquated state of China's military back then.
 
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Thus far, the major decimation has been among the political commissars, the ground forces, the rocket forces, the air force, the navy, and the joint support services. Other than that, everything's just fine ...
 
Thus far, the major decimation has been among the political commissars, the ground forces, the rocket forces, the air force, the navy, and the joint support services. Other than that, everything's just fine ...
What's your take on this? Why the bloodbath?

Pour encourager les autres?
 
What's your take on this? Why the bloodbath?

Pour encourager les autres?
Understanding the whys and wherefores of Zhongnanhai has never been easy, but at least today we aren't examining old photos to see who's been "erased from history." Having said that, the odds of me -- or any outside analyst -- getting it right are pretty small.

(1) Xi is dumping those who helped him gain power, so as to make plenty of room to groom and anoint an heir who will be totally dependent on Xi's goodwill, and thus poise no threat.

(2) The generals pointed out to Xi that his desire to conquer Taiwan was both laudable and ridiculous, because success could not be guaranteed and failure would be disastrous. Xi didn't like that, and is seeking yes-men who will carry out his wishes.

(3) Perhaps in league with (1) or (2) above, the general decided Xi had to go, but misread a couple of people who tattled.

(4) Xi really is wholly concerned about corruption and incompetence, and just as soon as he cleans house he will return to the great promise of his early reform tendencies. All will be well, just wait and see!

(5) All of the above.

(6) None of the above.
 
(2) The generals pointed out to Xi that his desire to conquer Taiwan was both laudable and ridiculous, because success could not be guaranteed and failure would be disastrous. Xi didn't like that, and is seeking yes-men who will carry out his wishes.
My personal opinion is that Xi does and will, one day sooner or later, move on Taiwan but he won't attack the island. With the Navy he is building he will simply blockade Taiwan and starve them out while daring others to step in. He has, for all intents and purposes, made the South China Sea his despite International World Court (all talk) and U.S. Navy Freedom of the Sea passages. Should anyone step in to help I could see him pull an idea from the old Japanese playbook in regards to the first island chain for protection which would put the Philippines in play for seizure. Xi is a long way from the guys Nixon dealt with in the 70s in thinking.
 
My personal opinion is that Xi does and will, one day sooner or later, move on Taiwan but he won't attack the island. With the Navy he is building he will simply blockade Taiwan and starve them out while daring others to step in. He has, for all intents and purposes, made the South China Sea his despite International World Court (all talk) and U.S. Navy Freedom of the Sea passages. Should anyone step in to help I could see him pull an idea from the old Japanese playbook in regards to the first island chain for protection which would put the Philippines in play for seizure. Xi is a long way from the guys Nixon dealt with in the 70s in thinking.
Its a complex problem from both both the attackers and defenders view point with no easy answer largely due to the geography. In the scenario you outline yes, XI can blockade Taiwan but then America can also blockade China by which I mean China can dominate the waters around Taiwan but the US can dominate all the approaches to the Yellow and South China Seas etc and the western Pacific. The US can also utilize bases in Japan Korea and the Philippines while China has no allies in the region with ports or other other facilities that would help it's cause because again geography means Russia is equally 'hemmed in'. The whole thing sort of reminds me of the Siege of Alesia with Xi playing the role of Caesar this time round (although frankly while Xi might consider himself an Emperor he's no Julius and the Chinese armed forces sure as hell aren't battled hardened legionaries the commanded at the time).
 
For your planning purposes ...

Military Affairs Commission (MAC) Vice Chair and the top political commissar of the armed forces Admiral Miao Hua, was purged in November 2024.

Admiral Dong Jun, the Defense Minister and a former Navy Commander, is widely reported to be in deep political trouble.

Navy Political Commissar Vice Admiral Yuan Huazhi was purged in October 2025.

Rear Admiral Jiang Zhonghua, head of the armament department of the South Sea Fleet, committed suicide in September 2014.

Vice Admiral Ma Faxiang, Navy Deputy Political Commissar, committed suicide in November 2014, while under investigation for corruption.

Vice Admiral Ju Xinchun, commander of the Southern Theater Navy, was purged in November 2023.

Lt General Wang Liyan, commander of the Joint Support Force and ex-Navy, was passed over for promotion to full central committee membership in October 2025.

Rear Admiral Li Hanjun, the navy Chief-of-Staff, was purged in June 2024.

Vice Admiral Li Pengcheng, the commander of the Southern Theater Navy, was purged in November 2024.
 
Its a complex problem from both both the attackers and defenders view point with no easy answer largely due to the geography. In the scenario you outline yes, XI can blockade Taiwan but then America can also blockade China by which I mean China can dominate the waters around Taiwan but the US can dominate all the approaches to the Yellow and South China Seas etc and the western Pacific. The US can also utilize bases in Japan Korea and the Philippines while China has no allies in the region with ports or other other facilities that would help it's cause because again geography means Russia is equally 'hemmed in'. The whole thing sort of reminds me of the Siege of Alesia with Xi playing the role of Caesar this time round (although frankly while Xi might consider himself an Emperor he's no Julius and the Chinese armed forces sure as hell aren't battled hardened legionaries the commanded at the time).
When it comes to blockades I would have to say Taiwan would cave long before China would.
 
For your planning purposes ...

Military Affairs Commission (MAC) Vice Chair and the top political commissar of the armed forces Admiral Miao Hua, was purged in November 2024.

Admiral Dong Jun, the Defense Minister and a former Navy Commander, is widely reported to be in deep political trouble.

Navy Political Commissar Vice Admiral Yuan Huazhi was purged in October 2025.

Rear Admiral Jiang Zhonghua, head of the armament department of the South Sea Fleet, committed suicide in September 2014.

Vice Admiral Ma Faxiang, Navy Deputy Political Commissar, committed suicide in November 2014, while under investigation for corruption.

Vice Admiral Ju Xinchun, commander of the Southern Theater Navy, was purged in November 2023.

Lt General Wang Liyan, commander of the Joint Support Force and ex-Navy, was passed over for promotion to full central committee membership in October 2025.

Rear Admiral Li Hanjun, the navy Chief-of-Staff, was purged in June 2024.

Vice Admiral Li Pengcheng, the commander of the Southern Theater Navy, was purged in November 2024.
It seems to mean a career in the Navy is not a wise move.
 
It seems to mean a career in the Navy is not a wise move.
Actually, the Rocket Force was the one that really got reamed, not that rockets would be useful in a Taiwan war ...
Four Commanders General Wang Houbin (9/25), General Li Yuchao (7/23), General Zhou Yaning (1/22), General Wei Fenghe (9/17)
Deputy Commanders Liu Guanbin (6/23), Admiral Li Chuanguang (10/23), Zhang Zhenzhong (6/23)

Rocket Force Political Commissar Xu Zhongbo (10/23; CC member), General Xu Xisheng (9/23; CC member), Zhang Zhendong
Rocket Force Discipline Inspection Commission Secretary Lt General Wang Zhibin (10/25)
Rocket Base 66 Political Commissar Major General Zhang Fengzhong (10/25)

Rocket Force Equipment Department Directors Major General Lu Hong (9/23), Xu Zhongbo (9/23)

Civilian rocket / aerospace executives Liu Shiquan (12/23), Wang Changqing (12/23), Wu Yansheng (12/23)

Major General Li Tongjian (9/23), rocket force officer

Rocket Force Third Dept Director Wu Guohua, suicide? (9/23)

PLA Strategic Support Force Commander Ju Qiansheng (9/23)
 
I'm pretty sure they would. The Chinese could use conventional ballistic and/or cruise missiles to take out militarily important targets like airfields etc before landings are attempted. That and deter any attempted intervention by the United States and its allies by threatening attacks on US bases like Guam and or US carrier groups if they approach Taiwan too closely or otherwise attempt to interfere.
 
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