Statquo and OOE Club: Canadian Politics
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- Start date
statquo
Well-known member
Absolutely at no time in my life, nevertheless here, have I compared Justin Trudeau to Jean Chrétien. Trudeau isn’t even in the same sport nevertheless league.
We’re going to respectfully disagree. What did Stephen Harper accomplish other than lowering taxes, talking the BIG on the foreign policy stage, and keeping the social conservatives at bay? He gave everything to Quebec and then lost it to the NDP(!). Fiscal conservative? 6 straight deficits, $150 BILLION to the deficit, a nice follow-up to Chrétien and Martin who shaved $90 billion off of it and left it with a surplus. He spent like a liberal! And that was with great oil prices in the late-2000s-early 2010s. Shameful. Cozying up the Chinese? Got us nothing. Tough talk on Defense? Measly investment, if any. Embarrassing policy like the “Barbaric Cultural Practices Hotline” targeting refugees (Syrians). And let’s not forget having the charisma and personality of a lightly dusted rock wearing a sweater.
Don’t get me wrong. The oil industry swung the balance of power to the West finally, and it was great to finally get a leader. But Stephen Harper was a placeholder until the Liberals, the governing party in this country, got their shit together.
I am too. But I’m ashamed where are our country has gone under the Trudeau government. A true lost decade of economic stagnation. Rampant activism. Identity politics. Clamping of free speech. Scandals. Affordability. Incompetence. Brutalization to our debt. I voted for him in 2015, sat out in 2019, voted O’Toole in 2021. Not sure I have it in me to vote Pierre in 2025. Truly a political orphan at this stage.
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statquo
Well-known member
Actually a topic that has finally been pushed forth and that I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts is the disgraceful neglect our military is in. I don’t know how they plan to pay for it without generating more revenues or putting it on the credit card for the foreseeable future, but what are your thoughts on it?
If I may ask, as things may firm up on the Canadian Army reorg/rearm would you mind adding a thread to the Land Forces section? May get more readership there.
As a Tag Up Canadian (my grandparents made brief stops in the Maritimes) I am interested and I know others will as well.
statquo
Well-known member
And even still our troops had to buy their own equipment in Latvia
An 'embarrassing' gear shortage has Canadian troops in Latvia buying their own helmets
Helmets? All we had were blue berets.
Isn't Latvia a training deployment to NATO vice a peacekeeping deployment like the Balkans?
Isn't Latvia a training deployment to NATO vice a peacekeeping deployment like the Balkans?
Thanks Sir. 4CMBG huh? I have visions of piranha in a giant fish tank floating in my head!
statquo
Well-known member
I believe the Dutch had combat troops as well?
You’re not wrong. When he took over in 2006 we took over Kandahar, and domestically the Libs, NDP and Bloc wanted to end the combat mission and stick to humanitarian and reconstruction efforts.
Absolutely we did. And that work and effort improved the reputation of our military, domestically and internationally, after the neglect of the 90s.
But like I said earlier, Harper talked a big talk. He underfunded his own commitments, cut military spending in Con majority years in order to declare budget surpluses. His overall defense spending was no different than it is now. Harper just traded dollars for duties.
statquo
Well-known member
But still quite true. The LEO 2s and M777s were a necessity after we took over Kandahar region, no? I remember Harper getting criticized for ‘escalating’ the war after the LEO 2 purchase. Getting sweated for not spending the 2% isn’t anything new. We’ve heard it before. Harper was lucky to have been told nicely. But he was hyperactive and deployed our military to Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, coastline of Somalia.. We took the tough missions without the 2%. And that was the trade off, even if it meant the wear and tear of equipment was kicked down the road.
I remember… and it was inevitable we’d be signing back up for it, even if Trudeau wanted to look like he cared about cost and overruns. It was politics. It didn’t make sense to make that type of investment and then pull out. It wasn’t like the Avro Arrow suddenly came online for production.
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statquo
Well-known member
Refresh my memory and knowledge. I thought the Americans, British, Canadians and Dutch were the only countries who took responsibility of provinces in Afghanistan with Canada Kandahar, Dutch Uruzgan and the US and British everything else? And that’s not by any means any disrespect to other NATO countries who fought in Afghanistan and lost brave troops.
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statquo
Well-known member
Soldiers had to rely on food donations because of lack of military support during Ottawa training
Staff created a “food cupboard” for the cash-strapped military personnel so they wouldn’t go hungry during specialized cyber training.
Canadian Forces personnel sent to Ottawa for specialized cyber training had to rely on donated food to make ends meet because of the lack of support from the military and the high cost of living in the city.
In other cases, soldiers went months without being reimbursed by National Defence for their expenses, creating even more financial hardship, according to military personnel who approached this newspaper with their concerns.
The recruits were not initially eligible for any housing allowance while in Ottawa.
In addition, while the troops finished their initial cyber specialist training, some are still delayed in advancing to the next phase as they have had to wait between 18 months to two years for security background checks.
Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Wayne Eyre, who has said that the welfare of military members is one of his top priorities, did not respond to a request to provide comment.
But National Defence spokesperson Andrée-Anne Poulin acknowledged in an emailed statement the ongoing issues faced by the cyber trainees who travel to Ottawa for instruction at Willis College.
At one point Willis College staff had to create a “food cupboard” for the cash-strapped military personnel so they wouldn’t go hungry.
“We take this matter very seriously, and we recognize the significant financial pressures new CAF (Canadian Armed Forces) members have faced in Ottawa, where the cost of living is high and the CAF has limited Base support services,” Poulin stated.
The department also acknowledged that following the resumption of training in the Ottawa area after the pandemic there was a large volume of various expenses submitted by military personnel that had to be processed. Poulin said the financial claims “initiated by the military personnel on the Willis course were given a higher priority as Canadian Forces Support Group (Ottawa-Gatineau) recognized their special challenges.”
The Canadian Forces first sent personnel to Willis College in 2020 for a course that lasted longer than a year. The military announced on Sept. 7, 2021 that the first 11 Canadian Forces personnel who had been instructed at Willis College had become fully trained as cyber operators.
Poulin said the Canadian Forces responded to the ongoing concerns about housing and financial issues for the students but that didn’t take place until January 2023. Subsidized accommodations were provided that month and those military personnel who chose alternate accommodations started receiving housing differential benefits on July 1, 2023.
As for the delays in security clearance, Poulin stated the department is trying to improve that vetting process. “The CAF has made recent changes to security clearance processing for Cyber Operators so that they can complete their initial training and be employed in their first units with fewer delays,” she added. “Processing the highest levels of security clearances in the CAF continues to be a challenge across occupation groups that require higher level security clearances.”
In February this newspaper reported on an internal National Defence review which concluded the department’s cyber force was being hindered by a lack of staff and training as well as security clearances that take far too long.
The force, made up of military and civilians, is supposed to handle cyber operations and protect networks at National Defence and in the Canadian military.
“The shortage of personnel is hampering the Cyber Force’s capacity to plan and implement a solution, risking cyber initiatives,” noted the 2021 evaluation released through the Access to Information law.
“Cyber positions are being allocated across DND/CAF yet there remains a shortage of personnel to fill them.”
The cyber operator job in the Canadian Forces was created on Jan. 31, 2017, in the aftermath of earlier direction from the government for the military and National Defence to become involved in cyber defences. Such individuals conduct a variety of cyber operations; they monitor Canadian Forces communication networks to detect and respond to attempts to hack the system as well as provide cyber support for military operations.
But the department declined to provide further details. The National Defence public affairs branch stated it cannot provide such information because of security reasons.
But that statement isn’t true; the Canadian Forces itself has put information online about the jobs its cyber operators perform as well as their qualifications. It has also highlighted graduating cyber operator classes. In addition, the Canadian Army published in 2019 a profile of the first female cyber operator.
The National Defence public affairs branch did not explain why it provided false information to this newspaper.
—————————————
That’ll help with recruitment :frown:
Staff created a “food cupboard” for the cash-strapped military personnel so they wouldn’t go hungry during specialized cyber training.
Canadian Forces personnel sent to Ottawa for specialized cyber training had to rely on donated food to make ends meet because of the lack of support from the military and the high cost of living in the city.
In other cases, soldiers went months without being reimbursed by National Defence for their expenses, creating even more financial hardship, according to military personnel who approached this newspaper with their concerns.
The recruits were not initially eligible for any housing allowance while in Ottawa.
In addition, while the troops finished their initial cyber specialist training, some are still delayed in advancing to the next phase as they have had to wait between 18 months to two years for security background checks.
Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Wayne Eyre, who has said that the welfare of military members is one of his top priorities, did not respond to a request to provide comment.
But National Defence spokesperson Andrée-Anne Poulin acknowledged in an emailed statement the ongoing issues faced by the cyber trainees who travel to Ottawa for instruction at Willis College.
At one point Willis College staff had to create a “food cupboard” for the cash-strapped military personnel so they wouldn’t go hungry.
“We take this matter very seriously, and we recognize the significant financial pressures new CAF (Canadian Armed Forces) members have faced in Ottawa, where the cost of living is high and the CAF has limited Base support services,” Poulin stated.
The department also acknowledged that following the resumption of training in the Ottawa area after the pandemic there was a large volume of various expenses submitted by military personnel that had to be processed. Poulin said the financial claims “initiated by the military personnel on the Willis course were given a higher priority as Canadian Forces Support Group (Ottawa-Gatineau) recognized their special challenges.”
The Canadian Forces first sent personnel to Willis College in 2020 for a course that lasted longer than a year. The military announced on Sept. 7, 2021 that the first 11 Canadian Forces personnel who had been instructed at Willis College had become fully trained as cyber operators.
Poulin said the Canadian Forces responded to the ongoing concerns about housing and financial issues for the students but that didn’t take place until January 2023. Subsidized accommodations were provided that month and those military personnel who chose alternate accommodations started receiving housing differential benefits on July 1, 2023.
As for the delays in security clearance, Poulin stated the department is trying to improve that vetting process. “The CAF has made recent changes to security clearance processing for Cyber Operators so that they can complete their initial training and be employed in their first units with fewer delays,” she added. “Processing the highest levels of security clearances in the CAF continues to be a challenge across occupation groups that require higher level security clearances.”
In February this newspaper reported on an internal National Defence review which concluded the department’s cyber force was being hindered by a lack of staff and training as well as security clearances that take far too long.
The force, made up of military and civilians, is supposed to handle cyber operations and protect networks at National Defence and in the Canadian military.
“The shortage of personnel is hampering the Cyber Force’s capacity to plan and implement a solution, risking cyber initiatives,” noted the 2021 evaluation released through the Access to Information law.
“Cyber positions are being allocated across DND/CAF yet there remains a shortage of personnel to fill them.”
The cyber operator job in the Canadian Forces was created on Jan. 31, 2017, in the aftermath of earlier direction from the government for the military and National Defence to become involved in cyber defences. Such individuals conduct a variety of cyber operations; they monitor Canadian Forces communication networks to detect and respond to attempts to hack the system as well as provide cyber support for military operations.
But the department declined to provide further details. The National Defence public affairs branch stated it cannot provide such information because of security reasons.
But that statement isn’t true; the Canadian Forces itself has put information online about the jobs its cyber operators perform as well as their qualifications. It has also highlighted graduating cyber operator classes. In addition, the Canadian Army published in 2019 a profile of the first female cyber operator.
The National Defence public affairs branch did not explain why it provided false information to this newspaper.
—————————————
That’ll help with recruitment :frown:
statquo
Well-known member
Pierre will take his cues from the Con premiers and get rid of it. BC and whatever provinces that are for it will keep their own carbon pricing. He won’t win anything in Quebec or Vancouver so he’ll have to take the Harper route and win everywhere else plus the GTA.
I mean the carbon tax isn’t anything new. It’s been policy for a few years. Affordability, housing and just a bleak economic outlook is what should finish Trudeau. Still can’t believe they brought in a million immigrants in a year and didn’t have a housing policy. That’s just pure incompetence.
This, in a word, is disgraceful. Your fellow countrymen on Twitter are going absolutely ballistic over this and rightly so. I can get training with industry who have the latest and greatest. But in this case they may have well missed the mark. Hell, just send them to the US Cyber School at FT Eisenhower! It would have been cheaper and the Soldiers would have been properly cared for. BUt it would have been a hardship as they would have had to drink American beer and there is no hockey in Augusta since 2011.
statquo
Well-known member
Canada’s new defence policy marks a crucial shift in strategic thinking
Wesley Wark is a senior fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation and writes on national security and intelligence issues for his Substack newsletter.
Canada’s new defence policy, released today, makes two big promises. One is to enhance our ability to protect Canada’s sovereignty and interests in the Arctic; the other is to remake the CAF as a technologically advanced fighting force. Both promises will require big spending increases over an extended period.
The most significant advancement, however, may have less to do with buzzy technology and more to do with Canadian defence thinking at large.
The long-awaited policy defines Arctic security as “our most urgent task,” which is made clear by its title – “Our North, Strong and Free” – and the cover illustration of a Canadian frigate navigating through ice-free waters under the Northern Lights. The need for greater attention to the Arctic is premised on the effects of climate change, including in opening up the region to maritime transit and resource exploitation, and on heightened geopolitical tensions in the region, including Russian and Chinese activities.
The new-look defence of the Arctic will include enhanced basing capabilities, a fleet of airborne early-warning aircraft (AWACS, of which the CAF currently has none), deployment of ground and under-sea sensor capabilities to monitor activities in the region, the building of a satellite ground station in the Arctic, enhanced foreign intelligence capabilities, and new tactical helicopters that can operate in the high North. Alongside these capabilities, the defence policy promises improved capabilities of satellites looking down from space, and sets out that the government will “explore options” for a new submarine fleet with operational capacity under the ice.
But if Canada hopes to achieve a technologically cutting-edge military, there are a lot of capability gaps still to be filled, including new weaponry and planning for vastly increased data capabilities in the coming age of AI and quantum computing. Next-generation weaponry would include air-to-air missiles, ground air-defence systems, and long-range, land-based missile and artillery systems. DND will look at options for acquiring surveillance and strike drones and sophisticated counter-drone capabilities, with much of this based on lessons being learned from Russia’s war against Ukraine.
Command and control of a technologically modernized CAF will require enhanced communications capabilities, more and more of which will be based on satellite systems, including for accurate navigational capacity. This will also demand sophisticated and hardened computer capabilities.
The defence policy also acknowledges the need for Canada to have “much better eyes and ears in space.” This is an area in which Canada lags. However, we are home to cutting-edge technological and industry capabilities, and catching up is possible.
Improving our eyes and ears in space means not just developing an ability to have situational awareness in an increasingly crowded environment of low-Earth orbits, but creating capacity to use space platforms (satellites and high-altitude unmanned aircraft) to monitor the Earth’s surface for broad security purposes, including collecting intelligence on conflict zones and threats, and monitoring the effects of climate change. Satellites trained on the Arctic will be particularly important for the future of Canadian defence policy.
Perhaps most importantly, though, is that the DND and its partners are also considering releasing a public threat assessment document to underpin the policy. That they may do so suggests that the ministry is looking to bring the public along in thinking about the singular importance of the Arctic to Canada’s defence and broader contribution as an allied partner to NATO and NORAD. This is crucial, as spending forecasts for the new defence policy have both a five-year horizon (for a projected $8-billion commitment) and a 20-year horizon (for $73-billion) – big numbers that are beyond the remit of the current or future governments. Political buy-in will be necessary.
The new policy will also be anchored in a commitment to produce a national-security strategy every four years. Canada has not done so since 2004, despite multiple independent external appraisals stressing the need for such a strategy to ensure all Canadians understand the nature of the threat environment, what resources and tools will be needed to confront it, and the road map for government action. This innovation, as well as a vow to establish “a more regular cycle of review” for Canadian defence policy, signals a major shift, recognizing the risk of ad-hoc and episodic thinking about defence needs and the importance of embedding defence outlooks into the broader compass of national-security considerations.
The new policy, then, is a marker of new ambitions for Canadian defence. For the vision to become reality, it will be important for all political parties to identify their defence policies in their election platforms in 2025 (or earlier, depending on the political gods) so that voters can then have their say on this vision.
Wesley Wark is a senior fellow at the Centre for International Governance Innovation and writes on national security and intelligence issues for his Substack newsletter.
Canada’s new defence policy, released today, makes two big promises. One is to enhance our ability to protect Canada’s sovereignty and interests in the Arctic; the other is to remake the CAF as a technologically advanced fighting force. Both promises will require big spending increases over an extended period.
The most significant advancement, however, may have less to do with buzzy technology and more to do with Canadian defence thinking at large.
The long-awaited policy defines Arctic security as “our most urgent task,” which is made clear by its title – “Our North, Strong and Free” – and the cover illustration of a Canadian frigate navigating through ice-free waters under the Northern Lights. The need for greater attention to the Arctic is premised on the effects of climate change, including in opening up the region to maritime transit and resource exploitation, and on heightened geopolitical tensions in the region, including Russian and Chinese activities.
The new-look defence of the Arctic will include enhanced basing capabilities, a fleet of airborne early-warning aircraft (AWACS, of which the CAF currently has none), deployment of ground and under-sea sensor capabilities to monitor activities in the region, the building of a satellite ground station in the Arctic, enhanced foreign intelligence capabilities, and new tactical helicopters that can operate in the high North. Alongside these capabilities, the defence policy promises improved capabilities of satellites looking down from space, and sets out that the government will “explore options” for a new submarine fleet with operational capacity under the ice.
But if Canada hopes to achieve a technologically cutting-edge military, there are a lot of capability gaps still to be filled, including new weaponry and planning for vastly increased data capabilities in the coming age of AI and quantum computing. Next-generation weaponry would include air-to-air missiles, ground air-defence systems, and long-range, land-based missile and artillery systems. DND will look at options for acquiring surveillance and strike drones and sophisticated counter-drone capabilities, with much of this based on lessons being learned from Russia’s war against Ukraine.
Command and control of a technologically modernized CAF will require enhanced communications capabilities, more and more of which will be based on satellite systems, including for accurate navigational capacity. This will also demand sophisticated and hardened computer capabilities.
The defence policy also acknowledges the need for Canada to have “much better eyes and ears in space.” This is an area in which Canada lags. However, we are home to cutting-edge technological and industry capabilities, and catching up is possible.
Improving our eyes and ears in space means not just developing an ability to have situational awareness in an increasingly crowded environment of low-Earth orbits, but creating capacity to use space platforms (satellites and high-altitude unmanned aircraft) to monitor the Earth’s surface for broad security purposes, including collecting intelligence on conflict zones and threats, and monitoring the effects of climate change. Satellites trained on the Arctic will be particularly important for the future of Canadian defence policy.
Perhaps most importantly, though, is that the DND and its partners are also considering releasing a public threat assessment document to underpin the policy. That they may do so suggests that the ministry is looking to bring the public along in thinking about the singular importance of the Arctic to Canada’s defence and broader contribution as an allied partner to NATO and NORAD. This is crucial, as spending forecasts for the new defence policy have both a five-year horizon (for a projected $8-billion commitment) and a 20-year horizon (for $73-billion) – big numbers that are beyond the remit of the current or future governments. Political buy-in will be necessary.
The new policy will also be anchored in a commitment to produce a national-security strategy every four years. Canada has not done so since 2004, despite multiple independent external appraisals stressing the need for such a strategy to ensure all Canadians understand the nature of the threat environment, what resources and tools will be needed to confront it, and the road map for government action. This innovation, as well as a vow to establish “a more regular cycle of review” for Canadian defence policy, signals a major shift, recognizing the risk of ad-hoc and episodic thinking about defence needs and the importance of embedding defence outlooks into the broader compass of national-security considerations.
The new policy, then, is a marker of new ambitions for Canadian defence. For the vision to become reality, it will be important for all political parties to identify their defence policies in their election platforms in 2025 (or earlier, depending on the political gods) so that voters can then have their say on this vision.
So a question...just what can Canada afford? What are taxes like? How much defense spending can occur without damaging overall economy? What is you homegrown defense industry like? Thanks
statquo
Well-known member
We can’t afford anything. It’s either go further in debt or raise taxes higher, and with current affordability issues, that’s a none starter.
Perhaps growing the economy would help….
Okay...we are a different subgroup of our populations.
What is the general attitude of the Canadian populace towards rearming? They are the ones who will need to pay for it.
Thanks, Colonel
Excellent breakdown
Excellent breakdown