Serbian Air Force- Stuck at the crossroads.
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Is that a G.91?!?!!?
No, F-86D, all weather fighter. Back to the time when we operated Sabres,Thunderjets and Shooting stars, 1950 era.Migs arrived in the 60es.
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If these deals go, SAF would operate 12 new Rafales F4's and 12 Eurofighters in addition to its current fleet of MiG 29's until they are phased out. Serious hardware, no doubt and very very expensive.
But than again, times are serious as well.
But than again, times are serious as well.
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I didn't recognize that outline for the F-86. I've seen hundreds of photos of them over the years but I guess not at that angle. I used to see them when I was a boy at Logan Airport in Boston. They belonged to the Massachusetts Air National Guard. I never remember seeing a radome like that style before.
I knew of the F-80s & F-84s used by The Yugoslavian Air Force. Just never knew they had Sabres!
I knew of the F-80s & F-84s used by The Yugoslavian Air Force. Just never knew they had Sabres!
It happened after the breakup with Stalin in 1948. Than Yugoslavia was under a threat of invasion from the Soviet Union and Broz leaned towards the West for help. That was the time when we operated standard NATO warplanes and our military was somewhat NATO-ish. That lasted till 1953-1955 when relationship was re established again. The MiG 21's arrived in 1962.
Most likely the Typhoon acquisition from RAF has a little chance to happen. In its latest move, the UK government has remain consistent with its goals and attitudes in the Balkans and armed Kosovo's Albanians with the Javelins and NLAW's.
There was a defense expo two days ago. Couldn't make it, though.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/viatacom...a-1-and-vila-2-long-range-loitering-munitions
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/viatacom...a-1-and-vila-2-long-range-loitering-munitions
First C-295 is officially in service.
https://media.tangosix.rs/2023/10/dsc_1296_1697107765.jpg
https://media.tangosix.rs/2023/10/dsc_1296_1697107765.jpg
Serbia buys Rafales ang goes nuclear.
Serbia reached agreement with the France, regarding acquisition of 12 new Rafale jets. In addition it also went into a cooperation with the French energy company EDF with the purchase of three nuclear reactors. Un official price tag for the Rafale deal is 3 billion Euors.
Serbia reached agreement with the France, regarding acquisition of 12 new Rafale jets. In addition it also went into a cooperation with the French energy company EDF with the purchase of three nuclear reactors. Un official price tag for the Rafale deal is 3 billion Euors.
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Any idea of that 3 billion Euros how much is going for spares, tech support and flight training?
Have no idea, the news was from this morning. They reached agreement today but official signing is in two months. However the main theme of this visit were not Rafales but reactors, that thing was signed in like 10 minutes while Rafale talks lasted almost two days. I will write more as the news come up.
Thanks. As a professional defense logistician I am always interested in the sustainment packages which are included on any new weapons procurement.
I am guessing that we will get basic package, without BVR missiles and SCALP's and that price is higher due to fact that we are not in the NATO. The road started in the mid 80'es finally gets its logical conclusion.
I'm intrigued if you also get a deal on engine maintenance/replacement.
There are a lot of commotions around that issue, some suggesting that it is a large deal package for the maintenance center and maybe even manufacturing of some parts. Our delegation was in full force, I mean everyone that matters went to France. On the side note, they are prepared to spend some serious coin and the rumors for the second squadron are in the air but what type is unknown for now. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if they would purchase used Typhoons from RAF, that seems the most likely option in my opinion. Also new helicopters from airbus are on table.
I really don't know what has gone into them, they went completely berserk in the last two months with acquisitions both foreign and domestic.
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The main issue that Serbia has, with conventional airframes,is the lack of strategic depth. In other words, the question of our air defenses and air force is not the question of missile batteries and aircraft, its the lack of worthy places for air bases. Hypothetically speaking, even if we get F-22 or Su-57 it won't matter, simply because our air bases are too close to the border and in range from artillery or drone strikes. The only viable option for effective air force in our case is a functional VTOL aircraft and those are a nightmare to design let a lone to manufacture.
I have to ask the obvious question. Who from?
All the states bordering Serbia are either NATO members or on well the pathway to becoming members - except for Kosovo! And none of them have much if any appetite for such an attack given the impact doing so would have on their status in NATO and their relationship with the EU. Meanwhile although Serbia's current government has shown zero interest in joining NATO that door has been left open should future governments ever change their mind. So while (given the region) I suppose terrorist attacks might be imaginable deliberate military strikes on your airbases by one of your neighbors with the intention of destroying the Serbian air force would seem to be a little ... far fetched?
The question and the problem that arises from it, is based on "can" rather on "will". To put it bluntly, the riddle is, can our air bases be destroyed,from the ground before we can react. By whom and why,is irrelevant and the answer is yes. Historical evidence and the experience from the wars that Serbia fought, shows the need for the VTOL aircraft that will serve as a point based interceptor and with force multiplier capacity that can be achieved either trough quality or quantity.Greece and Turkey are both in NATO but that didn't helped in the case of Cyprus and multiple other incidents that those two had for decades. Our case is even worse, because we are surrounded with countries (except Romania) that have claims on our land for centuries and are not eager to drop those claims just like that.
Just 12 days ago we had an incident, where we had a breach of airspace and fighters were ordered to scramble. The object was located over the city of Valjevo and the response time was 10 minutes. However the MiG's that were scrambled were not able to find the intruder. GM 400 was the radar that detected the intrusion. Back in the 90'es, while I was on active duty, there was a map in the base HQ, that dealt with the strike missions from Bulgaria. The map had time-to-target estimates and all of them were under 5 minutes and that was from cold war era, so, 10 minutes response time, is not enough for us.
Rafale is a good airplane,but for a "normal" country. Problem is, that Serbia, for one reason or another is not a normal country. Also this is not some sort of Balkan's arms race, our MiG's air worthiness expires in 2030 and with the situation with Russia and the sanctions, they cannot be maintained, hence we need to find other solutions for protecting airspace.
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Sounds more like a reason to be a member of NATO and integrated into it's early warning and air defense networks than it is an argument for VTOL fighter jets. There are lots of small nations in Europe with exactly the same problem and they all seem to be able to cope.
But Serbia is an exception.
The argument for the VTOL comes from a problem of how to defend an area that is 500 km long 250 km wide and goes 40 km into the air, that, in the case of war, has no lines of supply and can rely only on domestic resources. It is almost totally surrounded by all sides with a potentially hostile nations that have genocidal tendencies (Bulgaria WW1, Croatia and various Muslim elements WW 2) so surrender is not an option,because it equals death.Our historical experience confirms this hypothesis.
If we join NATO we become target for Russia, if we join Russia we became target for NATO, so remaining neutral is our only path but that needs to be supported with a lot of force in all areas. Don't fall for that bogus narrative that Russia sees Serbia as friend or an ally, the minute we make a decision that disturbs their plans they will not hesitate to club us. They have a proven historical track record in that area just as West does. We are expendable pawns on the board that had a misfortune to become self aware and the first realization was that we are still on a chess board. We were suckers in both 19 and 20th century, suffered greatly by the delusions and paid heavy price for that insanity. Self preservation is now our only interest.
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In terms of size? As I stated earlier your problems are no different or more serious than any other small European nation. In terms of politics? You either have to choose a side and live with the consequences or else? Just stay neutral and don't bother having any sort of real air force at all! (In the hope that no-one thinks your worth bothering with as a result.) You can't have your cake and eat it to, it's one or the other. So make a decision!
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