Quetta, Balochistan

[1980s]

AG:

Simply dismissing an argument because the author appears to support a 'terrorist" is
ad hominem reasoning. That may fly in the sidewalk cafes, but here we should aim for a higher standard and concern ourselves with the arguments the writer makes, not his associations.

Evidently this person has zero interest in debate, and zero debating ability. He's here for spin, to paint a faux picture of Pakistan as a harmonious and progressive country that is a victim of international conspiracies. Laughable. According to him, there is no Baloch rebellion against Pakistan, despite much evidence to the contrary.

BTW, the Daily Times has always been a 'extreme left wing' paper. As is the case with the author of the article you are quoting, some of the past editors of the paper (like Najam Sethi) were also members of the 'Baloch resistance movement' in the seventies.

Ok, well here's what 'the Nation' says in an editorial today:

Baloch resistance to military aid
October 03, 2013

A historical rift resurfaces from the rubble in Balochistan where an earthquake killed 400 people and affected at least 300,000 last Tuesday. As soon as the Pakistani government and armed forces reached the jolted area, they were met with resistance and even hostility from local liberation groups and ordinary village dwellers. In several cases, helicopters carrying relief equipment for earthquake victims were shot at by what the army describes “anti-state” militants. Unarmed rural civilians of Teertaj themselves told reporters on the ground that they want nothing from the army even if it includes aid for the wounded and displaced. This is only a brief glimpse into Balochistan’s resentment against the state for years of neglect.

Baloch representatives have stated reasonable and understandable demands before the government of Pakistan on many occasions, but their exigencies remain unnoticed. Operations by paramilitary troops, namely the Frontier Corps, continue within Balochistan. Further disintegrating the already volatile relationship between the average citizen and the state is the neglected case of missing people in Pakistan. A considerable number of people displaced by force hail from the turbulent province of Baluchistan. Despite suffering human loss and displacement – of both natural and political kinds – the Baloch resistance to life-saving military aid in the face of a deadly earthquake only demonstrates the chasm inflicted by a festering conflict. Assurances, suo moto notices, political slogans, all have come to naught and the average Baloch is no better off than before. The new arrangement under the NFC award has also failed to be of benefit to the average Baloch, with corrupt politicians pocketing much of the cash meant for public uplift. The fact that even at a time of such tragedy and trial, help meant for young and old is being turned away is a sad reminder of the hurt and desolation the Baloch are feeling. The democratic government at the center, and at the provincial level must make their presence felt. If the civilian government fails to address the complaints of the Baloch, there is no else in Pakistan who can. The rejection of aid after the earthquake must be heeded as a dire warning.

And a piece carried in 'the News International':

The Balochistan blackout
Sanaullah Baloch
Wednesday, October 02, 2013

Usually, in the wake of natural disasters, people-friendly governments tend to exaggerate, even manipulate, facts to grab attention and generate public and donor interest and outside help for relief and long-term recovery efforts. But for Balochistan, Islamabad has a shutdown policy – no information, no access, no outside help and no foreign aid workers.

Despite the Islamabad-backed provincial government’s repeated appeal for international help, and despite help offers by UN agencies, international donors and other countries, the National Disaster Management Authority’s head, a powerful major general – before visiting the area – said no, repeatedly emphasising “our own available resources” for rescue and relief.

In a nutshell, security forces control relief work without a long-term rehabilitation framework.

An official of the provincial disaster management authority said, on condition of anonymity: “After the Kashmir earthquake Pakistan mobilised all diplomatic instruments including paying major media outlets to highlight facts to get the international community to generate funds. But in Balochistan’s case we are not allowed to release any information without prior approval of the ‘superior authorities’”.

This attitude continues to affect all aspects of Balochistan’s affairs, including disaster management.

There is a persistent policy to portray Balochistan as a handicapped province full of illiterate, corrupt, lazy and incompetent tribal chiefs. This narrative helps Islamabad reinforce its colonial rule by neatly managing all aspects of governance, security, natural resources, and disaster management.

Assessing the flood damage and response mechanism in 2010, the UN agency for human settlements, UN Habitat, had clearly warned that Balochistan had fewer resources than the other provinces and its capacity to cope with calamity was very limited and that a major humanitarian response would be required to assist the people. Despite these grave realities and generous offer for humanitarian assistance, the NDMA prohibited international agencies, aid organisations and INGOs from directly assisting the flood-affected people of the province.

Balochistan’s miseries multiplied when the ministries of foreign affairs and interior imposed the ‘project no-objection certificate' condition for humanitarian organisations. Since Punjab and other provinces were declared open-access areas, all aid agencies redirected their efforts towards Punjab. The effects of those policies can still be felt in Balochistan, with half a million affectees living in makeshift tents in appalling conditions.

The NDMA’s biased decision vis-a-vis Balochistan led to distressing developments. In 2010, the director-general of the provincial disaster management authority informed the media and the provincial cabinet that the ‘project no-objection certificate’ condition had slowed down the pace of relief operations, resulting in countless deaths related to water-borne diseases. In addition, the 2010-flood defacement of eastern Balochistan remains unrepaired.

Previously, in July 2007, the then prime minister Shaukat Aziz used the same blackout policy and announced that “Pakistan will not take foreign aid from any country to overcome the losses and devastation caused by Cyclone Yemyin”. The 2007 floods severely affected the Makran region and resulted in massive loss of lives and property.

Balochistan has been in crisis since 1999, facing the wrath of both nature and the state. Between 1999-2003 a drought hit the province – economic resources vanished and disease killed thousands of people.

In 2005, Musharraf’s ruthless military operation resulted in 200,000 displaced people, hundreds were killed and disappeared, and political assassinations of senior Baloch leaders were committed. It not only destroyed the social fabric but put an irreparable dent on the fragile economic situation.

The current earthquake too will have a devastating impact on the socio-economic conditions and aggravate the inequality that persists among the provinces as result of Islamabad’s discriminatory policies.

Disallowing or discouraging international aid organisations and persistently imposing an information and humanitarian blackout will further harm Islamabad’s already tarnished and anti-Baloch image.

The policy of humanitarian blackout or shutdown is contradictory to the principles of human rights and humanitarianism. Countries with clear-headed leaders and credible institutions use such crises as opportunities to reach out to people and as a means of reconciliation. The Pakistani state, however, uses all such means to inflict more pain and misery and exploits a crisis as a tool to strengthen its grip on all affairs including the ‘humanitarian’ aspect.

The situation in the affected areas is unspeakably bad, with hundreds of thousands living under the open skies in scorching heat. Only experienced humanitarian organisations, not military or security forces, understand the basic principles of emergency response.

Disallowing international aid agencies, declining assistance from friendly countries and shutting down an entire province in its hour of need is not humanitarian service – it is a crime.

The writer is a former senator from Balochistan. Email: [email protected]

Both pretty much confirm Talpur, Jillani and others.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

He's here for spin, to paint a faux picture of Pakistan as a harmonious and progressive country that is a victim of international conspiracies. Laughable. According to him, there is no Baloch rebellion against Pakistan, despite much evidence to the contrary.

That is complete and utter nonsense - a deliberate distortion of my comments here any elsewhere. I never argued that there was 'no Baloch rebellion against Pakistan' - the multiple terrorist attacks carried out by groups such as those led by Allah Nazar quite clearly establish that there is a rebellion. What I have argued against is the claim that there is 'wide spread hostility towards Pakistan', if by 'widespread' you are referring to a 'majority of ethnic Baloch'.

Ok, well here's what 'the Nation' says in an editorial today:

And where does the Nation corroborate the allegations of Talpur that the military is actually carrying out a military operation against terrorists instead of providing relief to earthquake victims?

And a piece carried in 'the News International':

And here too, where is the corroboration of Talpur's allegation of 'a military operation against terrorists being carried out under the guise of earthquake relief'?

Both pretty much confirm Talpur, Jillani and others.

No, the latter two pieces you posted talk about real issues, discuss real problems in governance, of local corruption and the lack of development in Balochistan that has created an environment where terrorist groups can operate with local support. Neither the Nation editorial nor Baloch's opinion piece support or justify terrorist leaders and terrorism, or try to make ludicrous claims about 'military operations being carried out under the guise of earthquake relief'.

 

[1980s]

That is complete and utter nonsense - a deliberate distortion of my comments here any elsewhere. I never argued that there was 'no Baloch rebellion against Pakistan' - the multiple terrorist attacks carried out by groups such as those led by Allah Nazar quite clearly establish that there is a rebellion. What I have argued against is the claim that there is 'wide spread hostility towards Pakistan', if by 'widespread' you are referring to a 'majority of ethnic Baloch'.

I wouldnt know whether its a majority or not, all i accept is that the hostility is widespread because that is what has been reported for years and the geographical spread of the rebellion is very large, covering practically the whole Balochistan territory minus serveral districts in the north where Pashtuns are in majority. It is you that has your head buried in the dirt and refuses to accept this, instead, you think you know better. Funny.

And where does the Nation corroborate the allegations of Talpur that the military is actually carrying out a military operation against terrorists instead of providing relief to earthquake victims?

It confirms Jillani, you keep harping on about Talpur yet your initial rejection was of Jillani's report.

No, the latter two pieces you posted talk about real issues, discuss real problems in governance, of local corruption and the lack of development in Balochistan that has created an environment where terrorist groups can operate with local support. Neither the Nation editorial nor Baloch's opinion piece support or justify terrorist leaders and terrorism, or try to make ludicrous claims about 'military operations being carried out under the guise of earthquake relief'.

The Nation confirms that there is deep hostility in Balochistan towards Pakistan, if you cant gage that from the editorial then you're as incompetent as those Pakistani officials who've got their heads buried in the dirt too. OTHO, Sanaullah Baloch goes further and confirms Talpur's assertion that the Pakistani military has blocked off Balochistan to the outside World and has instructed its army to carry out operations there. For the Baloch, these arent aid operations, they're military ones. All foreign and civilian aid has been denied to them according to both Talpur and Baloch.

I again appeal to the intelligence of other members and the admins here to warn you about your spin doctoring.

 

[farhan_9909]

There are now Strong chances of the formation of Southern Pakhtunkhwa within Balochistan

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

I wouldnt know whether its a majority or not, all i accept is that the hostility is widespread because that is what has been reported for years and the geographical spread of the rebellion is very large, covering practically the whole Balochistan territory minus serveral districts in the north where Pashtuns are in majority.

Yet the limited polling data indicates that, geographically widespread or not, only a small minority in Balochistan is in support of independence.

It confirms Jillani, you keep harping on about Talpur yet your initial rejection was of Jillani's report.

It confirms the presence of resentment with corruption and a lack of proper governance and development - even a majority of people in the Punjab province would voice those resentments. However what you have done is to argue that discontent over poor governance somehow translates to 'widespread hostility towards Pakistan'.

The Nation confirms that there is deep hostility in Balochistan towards Pakistan, if you cant gage that from the editorial then you're as incompetent as those Pakistani officials who've got their heads buried in the dirt too. OTHO, Sanaullah Baloch goes further and confirms Talpur's assertion that the Pakistani military has blocked off Balochistan to the outside World and has instructed its army to carry out operations there. For the Baloch, these arent aid operations, they're military ones. All foreign and civilian aid has been denied to them according to both Talpur and Baloch.

The editorial in the Nation confirms discontent over poor governance, which exists in almost every part of Pakistan. It does not support your argument of 'widespread hostility towards Pakistan'. Baloch only confirms the obvious facts, facts that no one is questioning, facts that the Pakistani government and military itself have stated outright, that private aid organizations will not be allowed to operate in the region due to security concerns. No one is questioning that part - that part that I am questioning and that no one except you and terrorist supporters like Talpur and Fatah appear to support is the ludicrous allegation that the Pakistani military is carrying out military operations under the guise of relief work.

I again appeal to the intelligence of other members and the admins here to warn you about your spin doctoring.

My spin doctoring? You posted an article by an author openly praising terrorists and terrorism. You continue to defend that authors ludicrous and unsubstantiated allegations of 'a Pakistani military operation under the guise of earthquake relief'. Perhaps you should take a step back and try and analyze the situation without your anti-Pakistan prejudice.

 

[1980s]

Baloch only confirms the obvious facts, facts that no one is questioning, facts that the Pakistani government and military itself have stated outright, that private aid organizations will not be allowed to operate in the region due to security concerns. No one is questioning that part

Um, you havent read Baloch's piece, have you? Or you're really just that thick.

So now, ive had enough of your spin and lack of integrity. Ive submitted a report for some admins to review your input over the past several posts to determine your agenda, as i am no longer convinced that i am discussing with a real person. You're too thick for me to take seriously anymore, and i suspect that you're trolling.

I am only interested in discussing things with real, serious people. Spin, circles and frivilous chatter i have zero interest in.

Lets see what others here determine about this.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

Um, you havent read Baloch's piece, have you? Or you're really just that thick.

Since I am so 'thick', perhaps you can show me where exactly Baloch corroborates Talpur's ludicrous allegations about 'the Pakistani military conducting a military operation under the guise of earthquake relief'.

What else exactly do you wish for me to 'take away' from Baloch's opinion piece? Why don't YOU actually elaborate on what it is that YOU take away from that piece.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

I am only interested in discussing things with real, serious people. Spin, circles and frivilous chatter i have zero interest in.

Any 'real, serious debate' can only occur once the use of terrorism/violence by secessionist/terrorist groups has been condemned. Any 'dialog' with the 'separatist/terrorist groups' can only occur when they lay down their weapons and accept the constitution of Pakistan and commit to using the established constitutional processes to negotiate increased political and/or economic autonomy within the Pakistani Federation.

Any debate that utilizes commentary where terrorist leaders and terrorists are lionized (such as Talpur's love letter to Allah Nazar) is doomed to failure. Any debate that involves calls for the dismemberment of Pakistan and support for terrorist groups fighting the Pakistani government and massacring innocent ethnic Baloch and non-baloch civilians is going to go down the same road as this particular one. If you want to debate the 'injustices done to Balochistan' within the constitution of Pakistan, while condemning the violent terrorist groups operating in Balochistan, you'll find that a lot of Pakistanis will agree with many of the positions articulated by commentators like Baloch.

 

[1980s]

Back to the topic

Back to the topic

Back on topic, another from Sanaullah Baloch. It sheds a little more light on the Pakistani attitude towards the competing scenarios in Balochistan with regards to Talibanization and the depth of the nationalist rebellion. Unsurprisingly, Talibanization in Balochistan and FATA is considered useful for Islamabad, which is pretty much a reiteration of the Baloch-Pashtun unity conference that was held in Afghanistan last month.

Simplistic solutions to Balochistan won’t work
By Sanaullah Baloch
Published: October 3, 2013

The much-talked about All Parties Conference (APC) concluded without a clear framework to end Pakistan’s two major conflicts — the Taliban crisis and the politico-nationalist conflict in Balochistan. Talks with the Taliban received overwhelming attention in sharp contrast to the multifaceted conflict in Balochistan.

This disregard shown towards Balochistan is understandable. The deep state considers politically mature, moderate and rights-seeking Baloch nationalists as strategic threats to their decades-old, colonial-style rule; however, the same establishment seemingly considers the Taliban a long-term strategic partner in the regional geopolitical context despite these militants being utterly lethal. By deleting Balochistan from the APC deliberations, Islamabad has attempted to downgrade the importance of the subject and rebrand it as a mere local, provincial matter rather than a national crisis.

Nevertheless, Balochistan’s burning scenario preoccupies Pakistan’s policymakers in all international forums. Nawaz Sharif’s recent mention of Balochistan when meeting with Manmohan Singh is a clear indication that the scale and impact of the Balochistan crisis cannot be ignored.

The APC’s tactic to give ‘permission’ to the Balochistan chief minister, concerning talks with Baloch nationalists, further signifies Islamabad’s unwillingness to understand and resolve this crisis. The conflict in Balochistan has nothing to do with the provincial government. The Baloch nationalists’ demands and struggle are directed towards the central government and the non-Baloch security apparatus. It’s a conflict between two ideas — one that believes in over-centralisation, Talibanisation and the depoliticisation of Balochistan and the other that believes in political freedom, fair development, modernisation, equity and equality. The crisis in the province is neither Baloch versus Baloch nor Baloch versus Pashtun; it’s a conflict between the Baloch and the centre. Human rights issues, i.e., disappearances, torture, political assassinations and economic exploitation — are all related to Islamabad and not linked with the provincial administration. Demands surrounding the political revolt — ranging from self-determination to greater autonomy and restructuring of the security structure, are all directed towards the centre. Downgrading the intensity of the crisis may suit some elements within the security and political establishment but it’s a bitter reality that this is a conflict of great magnitude. Its genesis dates back to 1948 — caused by a flawed political structure and the centre’s policies — and it has subsequently resulted in repeated political revolts from the Baloch parties.

A proper understanding of the root causes of the conflict is critical. Islamabad’s simplistic approach, of branding the Balochistan crisis as being foreign-sponsored or as a societal crisis of tribalism and local competition, has done a lot of damage. Pakistan is a multi-ethnic society with an outdated colonial structure. Ethnic emotions, rooted in historical memories of grievances, together with unabated rights violations, discrimination, underdevelopment, insecurity are at the core of the conflict between the powerful centre and the powerless Baloch.

In order to devise effective peace-building strategies, it is necessary to recognise the multiple factors that are causing animosity and strife. The Pakistani elite have little time to ponder over the grief the families of the missing Baloch youth, daily abductions, killings and the worsening economic situation. Such acts are supplementing the crisis and pushing the Baloch towards morphing into a more radical and unmanageable society. A peaceful resolution of this conflict lies in politically-tested conflict resolution mechanisms. A comprehensive framework along with a peace agreement on the lines of peace accords in Aceh, Ireland and the Kurdish region in Iraq are some of the options that provide a context for peaceful coexistence within the territorial framework.

 

[1980s]

Any 'real, serious debate' can only occur once the use of terrorism/violence by secessionist/terrorist groups has been condemned. Any 'dialog' with the 'separatist/terrorist groups' can only occur when they lay down their weapons and accept the constitution of Pakistan and commit to using the established constitutional processes to negotiate increased political and/or economic autonomy within the Pakistani Federation.

Any debate that utilizes commentary where terrorist leaders and terrorists are lionized (such as Talpur's love letter to Allah Nazar) is doomed to failure. Any debate that involves calls for the dismemberment of Pakistan and support for terrorist groups fighting the Pakistani government and massacring innocent ethnic Baloch and non-baloch civilians is going to go down the same road as this particular one. If you want to debate the 'injustices done to Balochistan' within the constitution of Pakistan, while condemning the violent terrorist groups operating in Balochistan, you'll find that a lot of Pakistanis will agree with many of the positions articulated by commentators like Baloch.

You know, this is so funny to read and ive tried really hard to ignore it. But i just had to actually laugh at this. I mean, who are you? Who are you writing this for? Are you some kind of PR secretary to the Pakistani comedy club at Rawalpindi hq or something? You're not talking to me are you? You're talking past me in some kind of strange rhetoric directed at God knows who. Maybe Allah Nazar reads these forums in your mind and this is your warning to him and other Baloch rebels? lol

In anycase, 60-something year old Pakistan which is a purely post-WWII artificial colonial construct of the British with arbitrary British drawn borders and in the words of Sanaullah Baloch an "outdated colonial structure" is hardly sacrosanct or to be taken seriously since practically nobody recognizes its so-called 'territorial integrity'. It has border and territorial disputes with India and Afghanistan, a border with Iran that the Iranians have sealed off with concrete walls, barbed wire fences and ditches to keep the Pakistanis out, a border that the Pashtuns on your side dont even recognize and a relationship that is widely rejected among the Baloch. - Some constitution worth negotiating within that your ruling cliques dont even respect themselves and cant even enforce anyway! What a joke.. Your borders are fake, not of your own making and are named after British imperialists and you're proud of this? Damn.. Less than 2% of your people pay any income taxes and you're a basket case for foreign aid. Please.. your constitution isnt worth the paper its written on. Nobody respects it, not even your establishment.

I think im beginning to understand you better. You're insecure, and suffering from a massive inferiority complex about the disaster and hollow entity called Pakistan that your own personal identity and sense of worth is so intricately bound up with. You're not an individual with your own mind and thoughts. You sound like a poorly programmed robot, or a brainwashed and gullible juvenile.

What really matters to you is not the real World, or the reality of war in Balochistan. In the words of Baloch, you're one of these "Pakistani elites" arent you?

Your only concern is maintaining the shape of Pakistan on the map that British imperialists like Mortimer Durand and Cyril Radcliffe drew for your country. Your identity is so tied in with this farcical concept and ideology called Pakistan that any challenge to it absolutely terrifies you doesnt it? Because Pakistanis have been raised and taught to feel enmity towards India havent they? Which in reality, means enmity towards themselves because you're basically a confused Indian, arent you? And the notion of Pakistan disintegrating and embassies around the World having to reissue you all with the original Indian passport of your grandparents absolutely terrorizes and bewilders you, doesnt it?

Funny guy, you're clearly not here to seriously debate with other people. You're insecure and here to reassure yourself of a shaky identity and an ideology that doesnt hold up to scrutiny. Thats why you talk past people with rhetoric and spin, you dont care for discussion, you care about making yourself feel better about an identity thats in conflict with reality.

Im done with you.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

\

Im done with you.

Glad to hear that, since the majority of this post of yours was some sort of pseudo-psycho treatise about 'how Agnostic Muslim feels'. Do let me know if you actually want to have a debate about Balochistan without tossing slurs, abuse and insults all over the place.

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

In anycase, 60-something year old Pakistan which is a purely post-WWII artificial colonial construct of the British with arbitrary British drawn borders and in the words of Sanaullah Baloch an "outdated colonial structure" is hardly sacrosanct or to be taken seriously since practically nobody recognizes its so-called 'territorial integrity'.

Most Pakistanis would agree with Sanaullah Baloch that the current 'government structure is an outdated colonial one'. However, the overwhelming majority of Pakistanis would also argue that the 'government structure needs to be reformed' within the existing Republic of Pakistan.

It has border and territorial disputes with India and Afghanistan

And India has border and territorial disputes with Pakistan, China, Bangladesh ... Iran has territorial disputes with the UAE, Qatar ... so what's your point?

, a border with Iran that the Iranians have sealed off with concrete walls, barbed wire fences and ditches to keep the Pakistanis out,

Whatever floats their boat ...

a border that the Pashtuns on your side dont even recognize and a relationship that is widely rejected among the Baloch.

If your point about the 'Pakistani Pashtun not recognizing the Afghan-Pakistan border' was correct, it would be more of an issue for Afghanistan, given that the overwhelming majority of the Pakistani Pashtun have no interest in either becoming independent or joining Afghanistan, which leaves only one other option related to 'not recognizing the Afghan-Pakistan border', that they would like to see the Afghan Pashtun regions become a part of Pakistan. And I believe I have already given you polling data that shows an overwhelming majority of the residents of Balochistan rejecting independence, so pardon me for not sharing in your pessimism about Pakistan here.

- Some constitution worth negotiating within that your ruling cliques dont even respect themselves and cant even enforce anyway!

Which is part of 'reforming the outdated colonial government structure' - Pakistan just had her first 'fair and transparent' transition from one democratically elected government to another, so I am willing to let the democratic process play out to see what sorts of reforms can be brought about. We have already seen some significant constitutional reforms (during the PPP government) where provincial autonomy was increased significantly as was the share of the provinces (at the expense of the Federal government) in the distribution of financial resources.

What a joke.. Your borders are fake, not of your own making and are named after British imperialists and you're proud of this?

Actually most of those borders were negotiated between the British and the leadership of (not yet formed) India and Pakistan. While it is true that Pakistan's borders are not exactly what her founders wanted, they are nonetheless primarily a result of negotiations that were accepted by all parties involved, including the founders of Pakistan.

and you're a basket case for foreign aid.

And most Pakistanis want the government to reject foreign aid and reform the 'outdated colonial structure' to generate revenues and improve governance, and we are starting to see steps being taken in that direction.

 

[Doktor]

AM,

About how people feel...

I am sure you have better insight since you are in the area, but do you have data that back that?
Guts feeling can be wrong.

 

[farhan_9909]

This is the original and true map of Real balochistan.
The Red Marked.



View attachment 34047

 

[farhan_9909]

a border that the Pashtuns on your side dont even recognize and a relationship that is widely rejected among the Baloch.

Well it seems like the ground realities are unknown to you

No Pakistani pashtun want a merger with Afghan pashtuns or Afghanistan(atleast until they have persian culture and most important tajik and uzbek in afghanistan)

I am not sure whether you know about the Great betrayal or not But we the Pakistani pashtuns were sold off by the afghan pashtuns just to save themselves from the british invasions under durrand line agreement to British india,A country which we had no cultural or anywhere else similarity with.But we manage to live.And exactly after almost a century the same afghan pashtun came to us as refugees in millions and we accepted them as our brothers.
I am not sure whether you have ever been to Pakistan or not.or to quetta or KPK.The local pashtuns be it any ocassion we help the afghan refugees.

The durrand line might be recoginized or not.It doesnt matter,Yes within ANP they had thought about claiming the ancient pashtunistan region which include parts of today afghanistan into KPK by either force or anyhow possible since majority of the world pashtuns are in pakistan now.and they have the right to claim there ancient land anytime they want.Google about ancient pashtunistan region

I hope you no more will live with the media delusion.Since not me but majority of pakistani pashtuns thinks similar as do i think

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

AM,

About how people feel...

I am sure you have better insight since you are in the area, but do you have data that back that?
Guts feeling can be wrong.

Sure - I was not basing my comments on 'gut feelings', but on the plethora of surveys (by Pakistani and Western polling organizations) done on Pakistani attitudes towards various issues over the years. For example:

When asked whether they think of themselves primarily as Pakistani or as a member of their ethnic group, roughly nine-in-ten (89%) say they see themselves first as Pakistani.

Majorities among all four major ethnic groups analyzed say they think of themselves first as Pakistani. Close to all Punjabis (96%) – the nation’s largest group – say they see themselves first as Pakistanis, as do 92% each of those who identify themselves as Pashtuns or Muhajirs.

Sindhis are somewhat more likely than other ethnic groups to identify with their ethnicity. Just over half of Sindhi people (55%) say they see themselves as Pakistani first, while close to three-in-ten (28%) say they first identify as Sindhi; another 16% volunteer that they see themselves as both equally.

In terms of Pakistan’s regions, large majorities in the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) (98%) and Punjab (96%) say they see themselves as Pakistanis first, rather than identify themselves first by their ethnic background. Ethnic identification is slightly more common in Baluchistan and Sindh. In Baluchistan, the southwestern territory with rugged terrain and sparse population, 32% say they identify themselves first by their ethnicity and 58% say they identify themselves first as Pakistanis. In Sindh, with its concentration of Sindhi people, 72% say they think of themselves first as Pakistani rather than by their ethnic background; 13% think of themselves first by their ethnic identification; and 10% volunteer that they think of themselves as both equally.

Chapter 2. Religion, Law, and Society | Pew Global Attitudes Project

There is a reason why I have so strongly contested the views put forward by 1980's and others.

A similar survey on national identity done in 2011 provided similar statistics:

http://www.pewglobal.org/question-search/?qid=178&cntIDs=@[email protected]&stdIDs=

 

[Agnostic Muslim]

There are now Strong chances of the formation of Southern Pakhtunkhwa within Balochistan

I don't think that idea is going to move forward until the situation in Balochistan calms down. While I support the idea of creating more provinces in Pakistan (especially Punjab), the problem with creating more units out of Balochistan (at the present time) is that it will merely fuel the rage and narrative of anti-Pakistan elements in Balochistan.

In my opinion the best way to move forward on the idea of creating more administrative units is to start off with Punjab. Once that process is completed successfully, public opinion across Pakistan will become a lot more amenable to the same process being repeated in other provinces.

 

[Tronic]

And India has border and territorial disputes with Pakistan, China, Bangladesh ...

There is no longer any territorial dispute with Bangladesh. It was resolved 2 years back.

Iran has territorial disputes with the UAE, Qatar ... so what's your point?

I think the point is that you have disputes with almost all of your neighbours. Pakistan can hardly lay claim in having any territorial integrity as you cannot even enforce your own borders, resulting in your neighbours having to take drastic measures to keep unwanted elements out. If Pakistan's sovereignty and borders are truly so firm, why can it not enforce it's own borders?

 

[farhan_9909]

I don't think that idea is going to move forward until the situation in Balochistan calms down. While I support the idea of creating more provinces in Pakistan (especially Punjab), the problem with creating more units out of Balochistan (at the present time) is that it will merely fuel the rage and narrative of anti-Pakistan elements in Balochistan.

In my opinion the best way to move forward on the idea of creating more administrative units is to start off with Punjab. Once that process is completed successfully, public opinion across Pakistan will become a lot more amenable to the same process being repeated in other provinces.

even though your right but what i read is that even the baloch nationalist leaders now support a new province to be created for the pashtuns in balochistan where they are in majority.Such as the southern block of Balochistan(Quetta,Zhob etc)

Which is like 30-35% of Balochistan by land and almost 50% by population or may be slightly even more

 

[farhan_9909]

I don't think that idea is going to move forward until the situation in Balochistan calms down. While I support the idea of creating more provinces in Pakistan (especially Punjab), the problem with creating more units out of Balochistan (at the present time) is that it will merely fuel the rage and narrative of anti-Pakistan elements in Balochistan.

In my opinion the best way to move forward on the idea of creating more administrative units is to start off with Punjab. Once that process is completed successfully, public opinion across Pakistan will become a lot more amenable to the same process being repeated in other provinces.

even though your right but what i read is that even the baloch nationalist leaders now support a new province to be created for the pashtuns in balochistan where they are in majority.Such as the southern block of Balochistan(Quetta,Zhob etc)

Which is like 30-35% of Balochistan by land and almost 50% by population or may be slightly even more