NATO membership for Sweden and Finland

Three times in about a month, Orban has been forced to eat crow (Be publicly proven a liar!), in front of the whole world!
First time was when his eighteen month; oft stated, declaration that Hungary would not be the last NATO nation to ratify Sweden’s acceptance in NATO.
Oops! He is last, and he is alone! First mouth full of crow!
Last week, trying to bamboozle the EU into cutting aid to Ukraine, but folded at the wire! Second order of crow!
As for today, he had stated that the Hungarian Parliament would ratify the acceptance at its first sitting. His political opponents in Parliament; to save him and his Fidesz crony’s the trouble of convening a session, did it for them!
They boycotted the meeting!!! Third mouth full of crow!
The difference between him and Erdogan’s delaying tactics was that Erdogan always had a price! Kurds, lifting of sanctions, aircraft…something! Orban on the other hand never demanded anything, happy to follow like a cur, the big dog.
Now alone, he has come with a demand!
He wants the Swedish PM to come to Budapest for …negotiations! What negotiation?
What he wants is a ply to his ego!
The Swedish PM coming hat in hand, on his knees, should play well with his constituents! As well as his BFF in the Kremlin!
I guess that he is finding out that riding two horses can be hard sometimes!
 
Orbán's party boycotts a session of Hungary's parliament to further stall Sweden's bid to join NATO

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General view of the Hungarian parliament as Fidesz and KDNP stay away from the vote on the ratification of Sweden's NATO membership, in Budapest, Monday, Feb. 5, 202. As Hungary remains the last NATO ally to ratify Sweden's bid to join the alliance, the Hungarian parliament held an emergency parliamentary session on Monday, Feb. 5 to vote on the Nordic country's accession. Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has promised that Hungary will act "at the first possible opportunity" to approve Sweden's bid, but his party boycotted the session.

BUDAPEST, Hungary (AP) — Lawmakers from the party of Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán boycotted an emergency session of parliament on Monday where a vote was scheduled to place Sweden's bid to join NATO on the legislative agenda, adding to 18 months of delays that have angered Hungary's allies.

The governing Fidesz party, which holds an absolute majority in parliament, has stalled Sweden’s bid since July 2022, alleging that Swedish politicians have told “blatant lies” about the condition of Hungary’s democracy.

After Turkey's parliament voted to approve Sweden's accession in January, Hungary became the last of the military alliance's 31 members not to have done so, leading its allies to pressure the nationalist government to hold a vote without delay. Orbán told NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg last month that he would urge his party to ratify the bid “at the first possible opportunity.”

Monday's session in parliament was supported by six opposition parties, but Fidesz lawmakers didn't attend, scuttling the attempt to place a vote on the legislature's schedule.

Several ambassadors from NATO member countries attended the proceedings, including U.S. Ambassador David Pressman. In brief comments to the media following the session, Pressman said that the United States looks forward to "watching this closely and to Hungary acting expeditiously.”

"Sweden’s NATO accession is an issue that directly affects the United States' national security and affects the security of our alliance as a whole," he said. “The prime minister pledged to convene parliament to urge parliament to act at its earliest opportunity. Today was an opportunity to do that.”

A bipartisan group of U.S. lawmakers last week called on Orbán to immediately ratify Sweden's bid, saying patience with Hungary is “wearing thin” as it continues to delay its approval.

In a separate statement, U.S. Sen. Ben Cardin, a Maryland Democrat and chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, raised the prospect of imposing sanctions on Hungary for its conduct, and called Orbán “the least reliable member of NATO.”

Following the session on Monday, Agnes Vadai, a lawmaker with the liberal Democratic Coalition party, said that Orbán's conduct has “put Hungary into a very humiliating position,” and that there was “no reason” for his government to have blocked Sweden's NATO membership.

“I think that it’s very personal for Orbán, and it’s also very irrational what is he doing despite all the pressure that’s coming,” she told The Associated Press. “He himself should understand that (Sweden's membership) is going to serve the interests and the security of the Hungarian society.”

Hungarian officials have indicated that Fidesz lawmakers won't support holding a vote until Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson accepts an invitation by Orbán to visit Budapest to negotiate on the matter. Kristersson has said that he will make the trip, but only after Hungary approves his country's NATO membership.

Fidesz said in a statement on Monday that ratification of Sweden’s NATO accession can take place during a regular session of parliament, “but we are expecting the Swedish prime minister to visit Hungary first.”

“If this is an important issue for the Swedes, the Swedish prime minister will obviously come to Budapest,” the party said.

Hungary's parliament is scheduled to reconvene on Feb. 26. But Vadai, the lawmaker, said that there was no guarantee that Orbán's party would commit to a swift approval.

“I’m not sure whether the opening session will start with the Swedish ratification, unfortunately,” she said.
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Looks like Orban hasn't folded quite so easily.

Seems NATO and the EU will have to squeeze his nuts a little tighter then, won't they. In all seriousness though how much longer can Orban delay without NATO calling him out publicly and taking some kind of action? If the Hungarian Parliament has to reconvene as reported on the 26th there's only two ways it can play out. Either the vote on approving Swedish accession comes up somewhere near the top of the order of business and gets passed quickly or else he continues playing silly games and keeps on delaying it. If he does that? Well it immediately becomes blatantly obvious to everyone whats going on and he leaves NATO with no choice but to go public with some kind of reaction he definitely won't like.

Unless he's a complete egomaniac Orban has to see he comes out of this looking better by just giving Swedish membership the tick now than he does from trying to delay it any further. (On the other hand his actions to date could be a good indicator of just how seriously pissed off/worried his old friend Putin is about how much Sweden's accession to NATO will change Russia's strategic situation in the Baltic. Which is hugely and not in a good way! :smile:)
 
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Regarding Orban...it sucks to suck.

Time to ratchet up some sanctions against him and his family. And maybe have the ICC look at a few things...
 
Seems NATO and the EU will have to squeeze his nuts a little tighter then, won't they. In all seriousness though how much longer can Orban delay without NATO calling him out publicly and taking some kind of action? If the Hungarian Parliament has to reconvene as reported on the 26th there's only two ways it can play out. Either the vote on approving Swedish accession comes up somewhere near the top of the order of business and gets passed quickly or else he continues playing silly games and keeps on delaying it. If he does that? Well it immediately becomes blatantly obvious to everyone whats going on and he leaves NATO with no choice but to go public with some kind of reaction he definitely won't like.

Unless he's a complete egomaniac Orban has to see he comes out of this looking better by just giving Swedish membership the tick now than he does from trying to delay it any further. (On the other hand his actions to date could be a good indicator of just how seriously pissed off/worried his old friend Putin is about how much Sweden's membership of NATO will change Russia's strategic situation in the Baltic. Which is hugely and not in a good way! :smile:)

But what kind of leverage does NATO have that would compel Orban to come to heel?:frown:
In his dust-up with the EU last week, he apparently let his common-sense overrule his egomania. When he realized that the EU Commission had in the past; and could do so again, cut payouts to Hungary.
But that would envisage that the NATO Charter contains similar leverage? Or, even the means to kick a recalcitrant member out of the alliance?:wink:
 
But what kind of leverage does NATO have that would compel Orban to come to heel?:frown:
In his dust-up with the EU last week, he apparently let his common-sense overrule his egomania. When he realized that the EU Commission had in the past; and could do so again, cut payouts to Hungary.
But that would envisage that the NATO Charter contains similar leverage? Or, even the means to kick a recalcitrant member out of the alliance?:wink:

There are others here who could give you a much better idea but a guess? Access to NATO support services for Hungary's armed services might be a start. Things like access to joint training and maintenance programs, access to NATO level intelligence, the sidelining of senior Hungarian Officers at planning conferences, that kind of thing. Individually? I suppose certain members states could agree (behind closed doors) to delay the delivery of essential spare parts to Hungary that are produced by firms based in their countries. Purely due to an unfortunate set of logistical and/or bureaucratic delays of course.

Hopefully someone with actual NATO experience can give you a more detailed/specific answer.
 
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There are others here who could give you a much better idea but a guess? Access to NATO support services for Hungary's armed services might be a start. Things like access to joint training and maintenance programs, access to NATO level intelligence, the sidelining of senior Hungarian Officers at planning planning conferences, that kind of thing. Individually? I suppose certain members could agree (behind closed doors) to delay the delivery of essential spare parts to Hungary that are produced by firms based those countries. Purely due to an unfortunate set of logistical and/or bureaucratic delays of course.

Bureaucracy wielded by bureaucrats!
A pretty potent means of persuasion!
I’ve seen it used at local government level, and it worked there, so why not at a macro level?:biggrin:
 
Be great if its true, They could hold a grand accessions ceremony attended by representatives from all of NATO members who have ratified the agreement. This also gives them an excuse not to invite Hungary. Oh dear, that would be embarrassing.
 
NATO allies warn Hungary not to hold up Sweden's membership as US patience wears thin

BRUSSELS (AP) — U.S. national security adviser Jake Sullivan said that he and his NATO counterparts cautioned Hungary on Wednesday against further delaying Sweden’s membership in the military alliance, and he warned that patience in Washington has its limits.

Lawmakers from the party of Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán boycotted an emergency session of parliament on Monday where a vote was scheduled to place Sweden’s bid to join NATO on the legislative agenda, adding to 18 months of delays that have angered Hungary’s allies.

The governing Fidesz party, which holds an absolute majority in Hungary's parliament, has stalled Sweden’s bid since July 2022, alleging that Swedish politicians have told “blatant lies” about the state of Hungarian democracy. The party insists that Sweden’s prime minister must come to Hungary first.

“We heard security adviser after security adviser say that it’s past time for Sweden to get in, and to directly address the representative from Hungary,” Sullivan told reporters after a meeting of the organization’s top security officials at NATO headquarters in Brussels.

Sullivan said that he and his colleagues had impressed upon Hungary that “it’s a matter of credibility and obligation that they take the necessary steps” to complete the parliamentary procedures to ratify Sweden’s accession.


Sweden, along with neighboring Finland, set aside decades of military nonalignment to seek protection under NATO’s collective security umbrella after Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24, 2022.

Finland has since joined the trans-Atlantic alliance. The country, along with the other 30 allies, must all agree that Sweden should stand among NATO’s ranks. Hungary is the only member standing in its way.

Sullivan said that he wouldn't “stand here today and make particular threats, or speculation about steps that we would take down the road, but of course our patience on this can’t be unlimited either.”

He said the U.S. will “continue to watch it carefully, but hope that there is a constructive resolution to this issue in the very near term.”


Orbán, who has broken ranks with NATO allies by adopting a Kremlin-friendly stance toward Russia’s war in Ukraine, has said that he invited Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson to Budapest to discuss “future cooperation in the field of security and defense as allies and partners.”

Unless another emergency session of Hungary's parliament is called to debate Sweden’s bid, the assembly is due to sit for its regular session on Feb. 26.
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ay-2024-02-20/

Swedish PM to visit Hungary before ratification of NATO bid

So the sleaze-ball won!
Orban wanted Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson to come to Budapest for “negotiations” before he would accede to Sweden’s application to NATO!
What “negotiation” `?
What’s to negotiate? The NATO treaty is carved in stone, so it’s either yes or no!
But what Orban want’s is a PR-media circus, where the Swedish PM come hat in hand to ask his help!
So on Friday we’ll probably see an example of where diplomacy and politics at its highest level, is synonymous with hypocrisy at its highest level.
Forced to be nice to someone you’d rather spit in the eye!:mad:
 
He best be careful. If Orban wants a media circus he can of course have one. But the thing is he still has the to share the spotlight with Sweden's PM and if Kristersson doesn't like what hes hearing? A curt sentence or two from him will be all it will take to rain on Orban's little ego parade. Kristersson is only going because it's a small price to pay to finally get Swedens's secession to NATO sighed off by mini Putin. But there's only so much humble pie he'll be prepared to eat given accession is a done deal now. Whether Orban likes it or not.
 
He best be careful. If Orban wants a media circus he can of course have one. But the thing is he still has the to share the spotlight with Sweden's PM and if Kristersson doesn't like what hes hearing? A curt sentence or two from him will be all it will take to rain on Orban's little ego parade. Kristersson is only going because it's a small price to pay to finally get Swedens's secession to NATO sighed off by mini Putin. But there's only so much humble pie he'll be prepared to eat given accession is a done deal now. Whether Orban likes it or not.
Yahh..!
But it’s easy to see how tomorrow that stuffed-up little Mussolini wanna-be, will strut out from the dog-and-pony show “negotiations’” with the Swedish PM, to the planned press conference!
Where he’ll try to convince all and sundry that thanks to Hungary, the last hurdle to Swedish acceptance in NATO has been removed!!!!
As if he hadn’t been the hurdle for the last eighteen months!
 
Hungary's parliament will vote on Sweden's membership in NATO on Monday.

Orban has apparently been satisfied with the promise of Sweden selling Hungary 4 more Gripens and "expand a related logistics contract".

The more the better. Who knows? If Orban ever fucks with Sweden or NATO again like he did with this issue suddenly those logistics contracts might start suffering unfortunate delays. Just like the accession vote did.
 
Well, well, well....the blind nut finally found the squirrel.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/world/europe/sweden-nato-hungary.html?smid=tw-share


Hungary’s Parliament Approves Sweden’s NATO Bid After Stalling


Budapest had been the final obstacle to the Nordic country’s joining the alliance, which has been trying to isolate Russia over its war in Ukraine.
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Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary in Parliament in Budapest on Monday.Credit...Denes Erdos/Associated Press
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By Andrew Higgins

Feb. 26, 2024, 11:03 a.m. ETHungary’s Parliament voted on Monday to approve Sweden as a new member of NATO, allowing the Nordic country to clear a final hurdle that had blocked its membership and held up efforts by the military alliance to isolate Russia over its war in Ukraine.

The measure passed after a vote of 188 for and only 6 againstin the 199-member Parliament, which is dominated by legislators from the governing Fidesz party of Prime Minister Viktor Orban.

On Friday, after his Swedish counterpart, Ulf Kristersson, made a visit to Budapest, the Hungarian capital, Mr. Orban declared the end of a monthslong spat with Sweden over its membership of NATO.

Hungary had been stalling for 19 months on ratifying Sweden’s admission, a delay that had puzzled and exasperated the United States and other members of the alliance, raising questions about Hungary’s reliability as a member of the alliance.

The parliamentary vote on Monday followed a decision by Sweden to provide Hungary with four Swedish-made Gripen fighter jets to add to the 14 that the Hungarian Air Force already uses. Stockholm also promised that Saab, which manufactures the warplanes, would open an A.I. research center in Hungary.

Hungary, which had repeatedly promised not to be the last holdout, became the final obstacle to Swedish entry into NATO after the Turkish Parliament voted on Jan. 23 to approve membership.

Mr. Orban, who has maintained cordial relations with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia despite the war in Ukraine, has a long record of using his country’s veto power over key decisions in Europe to try to extract money or other rewards. That pattern was on display during not only his foot-dragging over Sweden’s NATO membership but also his opposition to a European Union financial package for Ukraine worth $54 billion.

Mr. Orban relented this month on approving E.U. aid for Ukraine, a retreat that raised hopes he would quickly order his Fidesz party to hold a vote in Parliament on Sweden. Mr. Orban had assured the NATO secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, on Jan. 24 that Hungary would ratify Sweden’s entry “at the first possible opportunity.”

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Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson of Sweden met Mr. Orban in Budapest last week. The Hungarian leader declared the end of a monthslong spat with Sweden over its membership of NATO.Credit...Attila Kisbenedek/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images


But when opposition legislators called a session of Parliament on Feb. 5 to vote on Sweden’s membership, the Fidesz party boycotted the session.

The vote on Monday ended a standoff that had soured Hungary’s relations with the United States and other members of NATO. With the exception of Turkey, all approved Sweden’s membership more than a year ago after the full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Even with Hungary’s acceptance of Sweden into the alliance, the long, drawn-out process to get to this point is likely to leave a bitter aftertaste. And the belated assent to the expansion of NATO, to which Hungary makes only a modest contribution, will not quickly change Mr. Orban’s reputation as a troublemaker more interested in cozying up to Mr. Putin, with whom he held an amicable meeting in October during a visit to China, than in supporting the alliance.

Hungary, whose air force depends heavily on Gripen jets from Sweden, has offered multiple and often shifting explanations for the long delay in voting on Swedish membership. It has cited scheduling hiccups, criticism in Sweden of democratic backsliding by Mr. Orban’s increasingly authoritarian government, teaching materials used in Swedish schools and comments made by Mr. Kristersson years before he took office.

Mr. Orban’s tough stance on Sweden, as well as his initial blocking of the Ukraine aid package, reflected his penchant for trying to establish his small country — Hungary has only 10 million people and accounts for just 1 percent of economic output in the European Union — as a force to be reckoned with on the European political stage.

That approach has infuriated fellow European leaders, but rocking the boat and defying mainstream opinion on both NATO and the European Union has increased Mr. Orban’s standing with Europe’s far right and in segments of the far left, both of which are often partial to Mr. Putin. They see Mr. Orban as a courageous scourge of conventional wisdom.

Mr. Orban has long been positioning himself as the contrarian leader of a Pan-European movement that defends national sovereignty and traditional values against what he disparages as out-of-touch “woke globalists” in Brussels, in the headquarters of both NATO and the European Union, and in Washington under the Biden administration.

Sweden, like most members of the European Union, has long accused Hungary of undermining democracy and violating minority rights. But after a right-leaning government came to power in Stockholm last year, it retreated from criticism of Hungarian domestic policy.

Admission to NATO requires the unanimous support of the alliance’s members. Finland was admitted to the alliance last April, but the strategic defeat that move dealt to Mr. Putin had been undermined by the delays in approving Sweden.
 
So Orban; like Erdogan before him, turned out to be just another two-bit huckster out for what they could get!:mad:
Like door-men at some exclusive club, with their hands out! “You want in, you have to pay!”:mad:
Well Sweden paid and got in, better late than never!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
If that means that there is a chance that the Big Orange Man and Putin the Putz, chokes on that fact, so much the better!!!:biggrin:
 
Russia warns of 'risks' should Sweden join NATO

A top Russian official has told a leading Swedish newspaper that the country would be likely to face military action if it were to join Nato.

Nearly one in three Swedes think the country should join Nato, a major poll suggested last month, up from 29 percent of Swedes in 2013 and 17 percent in 2012.

The shift in public opinion is largely credited to a rising fear in the Nordic country of a potentially aggressive Russia. Swedens security service Säpo recently stated that the biggest intelligence threat against the Nordic country in 2014 came from its eastern neighbour.
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Like Finland, you have to wonder why the Swedes are so jumpy if "Sweden is not a target for [Russian] armed troops" as the Russian ambassador to Sweden claims.
Sweden doesn't typically go around pissing other countries off for the lolz. I'm surprised the Russian ambassador didn't call them American puppets while he was at it.


Sweden formally joins Nato military alliance

Sweden has officially become the 32nd member of Nato after it completed its accession process in Washington.

The handover of documents took place at a ceremony two years after Sweden applied to join the military alliance following Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said that "unity and solidarity" would be Sweden's "guiding lights".

Nato today "is stronger than ever," US President Joe Biden said.

"Nato stands more united, determined, and dynamic" the US leader said, adding that "together with our newest ally Sweden - Nato will continue to stand for freedom and democracy for generations to come."

"This has been a little bit of a road but we've known from day one that we would be here one day," US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said.

Nato Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg posted on X that Sweden brings with it "capable armed forces and a first-class defence industry" and that the alliance had become "stronger and safer".

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky also welcomed Sweden's accession to Nato, saying "one more country in Europe has become more protected from Russian evil."

Russia has vowed to take unspecified political and military measures in response to Sweden's move.

Sweden applied to join the defence alliance after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022 - but its request was blocked by two members.

Turkey initially withheld approval in a row over what it called Sweden's support to Kurdish separatists. It eventually lifted its veto in January of this year.

Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban accused Sweden of being hostile to it and delayed its approval until last week, when the Hungarian parliament eventually voted to ratify the bid.

All Nato members are expected to help an ally which comes under attack.

Mr Blinken recalled Sweden's 200-year policy of non-alignment which lasted until Russia invaded Ukraine, saying that Nato expansion was not "foreordained" or "foreseeable".

Mr Kristersson said: "We are humble, but we are also proud. We will live up to all expectations."

"We share burdens, responsibilities and risk with other allies."

He added that security situation in the region had not been this serious since World War Two, and added that Sweden was joining Nato both to provide and to gain security.

Finland formally joined in April last year, doubling the length of the alliance's border with Russia.

On Monday a flag-raising ceremony to mark Sweden's accession will take place at the Nato headquarters in Brussels.

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Map illustrating Nato's European expansion since 1949

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Started this thread almost on a whim, 21 July 2015. Man it's bizarre how much has changed since then.
 
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